News & Analysis
Protests Are a Force of Nature
We Predicted Global Anti-Gov't Protests: What's Next? ... It is a matter of record! The spate of seething, youth-inspired Middle East uprisings that are toppling governments, reshaping the geopolitical landscape and roiling world markets blindsided the world's intelligence community. Not the CIA, Joint Chiefs of Staff or National Security Council saw it coming. Mossad and MI5 missed it! None of the mainstream media's star-studded stable of scholars, experts and think-tank policy wonks were thinking ahead. But what was breaking news to them was yesterday's news for Trends Journal readers. In the summer 2010 issue, we wrote: "What's happening in Greece will spread worldwide as economies decline. There are no organizations behind this response, it's a public response. This is a 21st century rendition of ‘Workers of the World unite'" – Trends Journal, Gerald Celente
Dominant Social Theme: When she blows, she blows.
Free-Market Analysis: Gerald Celente is one of the savviest trend forecasters around; no one beats him at his best. But this analysis (excerpted above) was puzzling to us. Its viewpoint travels to the heart of what we have been discussing regarding these color revolutions. There has been much reported on them, and we will discuss the reporting and the evidence that these are manipulated revolutions below.
We will compare and contrast Celente's perspective with ours to see how we differ and why he has come to the conclusions he has. We disagree profoundly that these revolutions are spontaneous. They may end up being uncontrollable – that's a risk of the Internet era – but the idea that the West has played no part in them or has not in some sense set them in motion seems odd to us given what the alternative press has increasingly maintained.
Celente states it's a matter of record that Western powers-that-be did not foresee these color revolutions: "Not the CIA, Joint Chiefs of Staff or National Security Council saw it coming. Mossad and MI5 missed it! None of the mainstream media's star-studded stable of scholars, experts and think-tank policy wonks were thinking ahead."
He then cites a Trends prediction from summer 2010 stating that the riots that took place in Greece were going to spread worldwide. There are no organizations behind this response, he argues. It is a public response. "When people lose everything and have nothing left to lose, they lose it."
He also predicted an arsenal of digital/Internet weapons via Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc. would be deployed by young revolutionaries that "would bypass corporate/government media, outwit intelligence agencies, outflank the military and police and rally the populace into the streets and onto the barricades."
The reasons for these revolutions had to do with "bread and butter issues [rather] than politics." Declining economies mean that unemployment rises, taxes are raised and services cut. Therefore, these revolutions are not being driven by freedom issues but by simple inequality. "A few at the top have too much, and too many others have too little." The higher prices go, the more volatile the world will get. He forecasts that the current unrest will spread to Europe and other parts of the world and will not simply be restricted to the Middle East.
What we find strange about this argument, as we noted above, is the factual documentation that Western elites have set these color revolutions in motion. Even the raised-fist logos that appeared during the Eastern Europe color revolutions have reappeared in Tunisia and Egypt, like recycled props. But there is much more. We've already noted a much-discussed UK Telegraph article that reported on US intel involvement in training Egyptian "youth" on various protest tactics prior to Egypt's recent upheavals. The training apparently went on for at least two years.
And we've reported on AYM, The Alliance for Youth Movements (AYM), which began with a December 2008 summit in New York City to, as Wikipedia puts it, "to identify, convene, and engage 21st century movements online for the first time in history. The United States Department of State partnered with Facebook, Howcast, MTV, Google, YouTube, AT&T, JetBlue, Gen-Next, Access 360 Media, and Columbia Law School to launch a global network and empower young people mobilizing against violence and oppression."
Wikipedia lists the backers of AYM, an elitist who's who: "Jared Cohen, former advisor to both Secretaries of State Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton and now Director of Google Ideas at Google, Jason Liebman, CEO and co-founder of Howcast and Roman Tsunder, co-founder of Access 360 Media. Speakers at the 2008 summit included actress Whoopi Goldberg, Facebook Co-Founder Dustin Moskovitz, The Obama Campaign's New Media Team, and then-current Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs of the United States James K. Glassman."
A 2010 article at Wired.com covered an AYM summit that gathered youth activists from more than 18 countries to "learn more about using online tools to promote their extraordinary range of social movements and promote non-violent change ... You can sense the scale of their practical ambition from the title of some of the sessions: one is called Tech Solutions to Repressive Regimes; another is titled Effective Strategies for Mobile Content to Increase Empowerment." Hillary Clinton herself gave a keynote address at the 2009 AYM conference in Mexico City.
So we are puzzled that Celente sees the uprisings as entirely spontaneous. Even grant his argument that they are being driven by higher food and commodity prices, we would ask who created these prices in the first place. Celente's view is that the Federal Reserve is "exporting" price inflation via its quantitative-easing programs. But do those who orchestrate such programs really not understand the ramifications?
The trillions pumped into the world's economy are surely driving the price inflation that is in turn driving these revolutions. But given the deliberate orchestration of revolutionary fervor in Africa and the Middle East we begin to see a kind of metaphorical pincer movement. Price inflation from America's massive quantitative easing drives up the costs of survival while US intelligence interests organize overseas "youth" in the art of "non-violent" change.
To call these revolutions spontaneous at this point is to ignore substantive evidence that they are not. Even the way they are unrolling – one to the next like some kind of power point presentation (or keynote if you will) – is very strange. The orchestration seems undeniable. That is not to say, however, that these events once put into play are entirely controllable. We have emphasized many times before that in the Internet era the dominant social themes of the elite only go so far. People are both more aware and less included to be manipulated.
On this issue, then, we agree with Celeste. These protests will continue and likely engulf Europe (once again) when the weather grows warmer. (In Greece, they've never really stopped.) And no, here we are not referring metaphorically to global warming. The Anglo-American power elite apparently believes in its arrogance that it can set the world ablaze and then control the outcome.
The idea, as one insightful Bell feedbacker suggested recently, is that revolutions provide an outlet for rising social tension. Having lanced the metaphorical boil, business-as-usual can be re-established, or some other sociopolitical environment can be created – perhaps a series of Islamic republics that will buttress the reality of the West's long-running war-on-terror.
Conclusion: All this may lie ahead as the Middle East and then Europe and perhaps even America begin to convulse. Whatever the power elite has in mind, these are astonishingly high stakes. And the 21st century in our view is nothing like the 20th.
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Posted by Gavin on 03/03/11 01:11 AM
@Bill Ross??
Bill: "I don't dispute what you say, but, at the beginning of the LAST Renaissance, self-proclaimed "intellectuals" of the day were caught up in crucial concerns such as "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin", with an ignorant public audience believing that an answer really mattered."
G: Isn't it possible those "intellectuals" were elitist stooges employed to distract from the real issue (metaphysics) by use of an irrelevant strawman (dancing angels etc). Isn't it the same today? People who have anything which threatens the PE and the world view they want portrayed are ridiculed and made to look crazy. Look at what happened to Tesla or Rife or anyone who dares to challenge the AGW nonsense. When I see this happening it makes me take notice since the information is probably significant.
B: "Similarly, when it is acknowledged that we live in environments and make choices according to the facts, as we perceive them, in pursuit of survival, only what we perceive and has direct influence upon us is significant. So, even though a solid appearing wall or floor is mostly empty space composed of atoms and electrons whose exact positions cannot be established and, the mere attempt at observation influences what we measure, to us, on the macro level, this is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we do not sink through floors and can therefore stand on them and, walls keep out the elements."
G: Why should the atomic level be relevant and the macro level irrelevant? Where do you arbitrarily draw the line? Sure none of us are going to sink through the floors but my point was that focussed intention is powerful and can change outcomes. This is why the PE try to hold us in a perpetual state of fear, worry and feeling of hopelessness. The more we believe we are trivial and powerless the more they can control the outcome.
An example of focussed attention might be an average sized woman lifting a car off her trapped child when usually she would have no chance. Or how about the placebo effect or it's evil twin, the nocebo effect? Anything, within reason, is possible. I believe experiments have been done in the States using groups in prayer sessions or meditations and the results were conclusive showing that focussed intention is effective. Even Princeton University has an experiment dedicated to this called the EGG project. From their website:
"Our purpose is to examine subtle correlations that may reflect the presence and activity of consciousness in the world. We predict structure in what should be random data, associated with major global events. When millions of us share intentions and emotions the GCP/EGG network data show meaningful departures from expectation. This is a powerful finding based in solid science."
Click to view link
Even BEFORE events like 911 or the death of Princess Diana occurred, their instruments registered a change in the data to signify that something big was about to happen.??Bill: "... So, they state certain "truths" are not "neccessarily" true, such as:?- You cannot put yourself into debt without consequence ?- You can lie, steal, cheat, hurt people without consequence ?- You cannot destroy division of labor, requiring property rights without destroying civilization ...etc"
G: The above is almost impossible to know because we don't know the full circumstances. For example, putting yourself into debt might be consequence-free if you were deceived in the first place (ie through the fractional reserve banking system.) But it might not be ok if you borrow money interest-free from your neighbour and refuse to pay it back. You might not be arrested but eventually it will catch up with you in other ways. Another example is that stealing might be ok if you need food, for example, to survive.
Basically my take on it is that if you intentionally hurt other people then there are consequences. I believe in the law of what goes around comes around, or karma if you like. Where we would probably disagree is that the consequences might not necessarily happen in this lifetime. I know this is not really provable in any concrete way so we'll have to leave it as a difference of opinion.??B: "So, I am stating that some things are unimportant (not of influence) at the macro level, but are claimed to be so. To me, this is just charlatan "scientists" attempting to acquire the same power, from the same source, as mystics of old."
G: So you're suggesting some scientists believe that there is a hidden power but you think it's irrelevant at the macro level? Perhaps you're right about "scientists" attempting to acquire the same power but when it comes to state of mind I think comparing mystics and scientists is like comparing apples and oranges. I don't doubt the elite are dabbling in the black arts though. An example might be numerology matching up with dates of various false flag events or perhaps subliminal messages snuck into movies before the event.
B: "This is "fear of the unknown" and those who claim to understand it, can turn it against us, unless tribute is paid."
The fear of the unknown is a powerful tool and is used against us for sure. You might disagree but whatever, it will eventually come back to them in spades. They might feel themselves to be individuals and beyond retribution but everything is connected as one (QM: Entanglement) and I don't believe they can "lie, steal, cheat, hurt people without consequence." It applies to the global warming scam as well.
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Posted by Bill Ross on 03/02/11 04:18 PM
@DB: Please remove duplicate post...thx
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Posted by Bill Ross on 03/02/11 03:47 PM
@Gavin
I don't dispute what you say, but, at the beginning of the LAST Renaissance, self-proclaimed "intellectuals" of the day were caught up in crucial concerns such as "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin", with an ignorant public audience believing that an answer really mattered. The answer of course, since angels are supposedly immaterial is "as many as want to".
Similarly, when it is acknowledged that we live in environments and make choices according to the facts, as we perceive them, in pursuit of survival, only what we perceive and has direct influence upon us is significant.
So, even though a solid appearing wall or floor is mostly empty space composed of atoms and electrons whose exact positions cannot be established and, the mere attempt at observation influences what we measure, to us, on the macro level, this is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we do not sink through floors and can therefore stand on them and, walls keep out the elements.
Those who use the Pauli Exclusion principles and other, to the layman, bizarre observations to which Einstein so famously stated "God doesn't play dice" make the false statement that certain predictability also does not apply at the Newtonian action to consequence macro level which is all that we are perceptually capable of (without tools).
So, they state certain "truths" are not "necessarily" true, such as:
- You cannot put yourself into debt without consequence
- You cannot lie, steal, cheat, hurt people without consequence
- You cannot destroy division of labor, requiring property rights without destroying civilization
...etc
So, I am stating that some things are unimportant (not of influence) at the macro level, but are claimed to be so. To me, this is just charlatan "scientists" attempting to acquire the same power, from the same source, as mystics of old. This is "fear of the unknown" and those who claim to understand it, can turn it against us, unless tribute is paid.
This is EXACTLY where the global warming scam cam from, philosophically.
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Posted by Bill Ross on 03/02/11 02:08 PM
@Gavin
I don't dispute what you say, but, at the beginning of the LAST Renaissance, self-proclaimed "intellectuals" of the day were caught up in crucial concerns such as "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin", with an ignorant public audience believing that an answer really mattered. The answer of course, since angels are supposedly immaterial is "as many as want to".
Similarly, when it is acknowledged that we live in environments and make choices according to the facts, as we perceive them, in pursuit of survival, only what we perceive and has direct influence upon us is significant.
So, even though a solid appearing wall or floor is mostly empty space composed of atoms and electrons whose exact positions cannot be established and, the mere attempt at observation influences what we measure, to us, on the macro level, this is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we do not sink through floors and can therefore stand on them and, walls keep out the elements.
Those who use the Pauli Exclusion principles and other, to the layman, bizarre observations to which Einstein so famously stated "God doesn't play dice" make the false statement that certain predictability also does not apply at the Newtonian action to consequence macro level which is all that we are perceptually capable of (without tools).
So, they state certain "truths" are not "neccessarily" true, such as:
- You cannot put yourself into debt without consequence
- You can lie, steal, cheat, hurt people without consequence
- You cannot destroy division of labor, requiring property rights without destroying civilization
...etc
So, I am stating that some things are unimportant (not of influence) at the macro level, but are claimed to be so. To me, this is just charlatan "scientists" attempting to acquire the same power, from the same source, as mystics of old. This is "fear of the unknown" and those who claim to understand it, can turn it against us, unless tribute is paid.
This is EXACTLY where the global warming scam cam from, philosophically.
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Posted by Gavin on 03/02/11 10:28 AM
@ Bill Ross
"Even modern science recognises that we live in an illusion."
"BS. I caution you regarding accepting unproven general statements. What true science does state is an interest in the MEASURABLE and PROVABLE and wisely, like me considers anything outside of this realm to be sheer speculation regarding nothing. If is is REAL, it can be measured."
You've written quite a bit but I'll start with the above as I think it partly relates to the first part as well.
About the illusion I was thinking along the lines of atoms and the distance between the nucleus and its electrons. Relatively speaking there is a huge distance with nothing but empty space between them yet it's these atoms which make up what we perceive to be real. And even the electrons of those atoms blink in and out of existence. Perhaps a poor example but you can see that a wall is solid yet TV and radio frequencies pass through it all the time, as do certain particles from space pass directly through the Earth without any decrease in speed or deviation of course.
I don't necessarily believe all the hype about the Halderon Collider but ostensibly one of the main reasons it was built, I believe, was to find the Higgs-boson particle which the scientists theorise bonds matter together. To be honest I don't really know much about it but my point is, if they need to search for something which may or may not exist, and that thing is supposed to hold matter together then that tells me that nothing is as solid or real as our 5 senses tell us. This is why I said what we see 'out there' is an illusion. I think the quantum theorists call it an interference pattern.
Regarding the first part of your post about truth being established by measuring the relationship between action and consequence in the physical realm how would you relate that to the double-slit experiment? When the test is carried out using electrons fired at a screen the observer, or measurer, becomes the observed and the electrons behave in a manner depending on the observer's expectations. The same experiment set up in identical conditions can end up having different results depending on the observer and what he or she expects. In other words the observer influences the results simply by observing. You say that the "physical realm is the standard of truth" but how so when it can't even be measured objectively?
Concerning your point about the REAL accomplishments of science appear indistinguishable from magic, or charlatans misrepresenting "science"...
I watched a video of a physicist (Nassim Haramein) giving a presentation some time ago. He was saying that mainstream scientists attempted to calculate the amount of zero point energy in a cubic centimetre of space. Basically the amount was INFINITE yet because 'infinite' did not fit with current theories they 'made' it fit (and therefore FINITE) by deciding on the parameters, or on 'minor adjustments'. The finite amount they settled on was still massive anyway but the point is they cheated, just like the AGW scam, to make the results suitable to our physical world view, or the view they wanted us to believe. It's possible that Nassim Haramein is misleading us but based on the history of mainstream science I tend to think he is telling the truth. I'm sure he could easily prove it by doing the calculations in front of people anyway.
Getting back to my previous post, just because you can't see or measure something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that there may be laws which we can't relate to on a physical level. I think the double slit experiment proves that we can collectively influence the outcome of worldly events in a positive or negative way and the PE must be aware of this, probably from way back.
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Posted by Adrian W. on 03/02/11 08:29 AM
Reply from the Daily Bell:
The protestors have got to jettison modern central bank economics. The only way ...
I quite agree as most do here, I'm sure. However, is that the Daily Bell's opinion or how they see the protestors' opinions?
Reply from The Daily Bell
It is our opinion. It is an open question what the protesters have in mind ... Do they really know themselves?
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Posted by Adrian W. on 03/02/11 08:23 AM
All things considered, one cannot be inept and be in-charge. The "Power Elite" maintaining power for centuries did not come by blind luck. Even Celente` says, " Wall Street is a rigged game by the White Shoe Boys", a whiter version of the mafia. So, yes, there has been planning and orchestrations going on from the get-go. Why would one conclude that the spy agencies (excluding TSA employees....and Janet Napolitano) didn't see this coming? Lets ask him in an interview on the Daily Bell! Gerald sees the 9/11 False Flag Strike as an inside job. So, yes he recognizes a plotting on at least the government level. In the same stroke of the brush he paints the politicians as complete morons. Not trusting them to watch his dog over the weekend..(his dog died 2 years ago..)
I like Gerald but one other thing concerns me. He's been predicting youthful revolution for awhile. As mentioned in your article, there is a youth movement being fueled by people in high places.
I think these 2 issues should be addressed with Mr. Celente`. Lets find out what he really knows and where he really stands.
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Posted by Bill Ross on 03/02/11 07:17 AM
@Gavin
"As for the Truth (or the Real), I think it's beyond the physical realm."
The truth can be established by measuring the relationship between action and consequence in the physical realm, under environmental conditions. It is hypothesized what are the physical mechanisms (laws) relating action to consequence and theories postulated. Whichever theory is able to consistently PREDICT consequences from action, with ZERO exceptions occupies the position of "established truth" until some action to consequence sequence is demonstrated that the theory does not explain. Then, the search for a "better truth" is undertaken. This is scientific method, or, applied thinking, as explained HERE:
Click to view link
So, I seriously DISAGREE with you. The physical realm is the standard of TRUTH. This is why our "rulers" try so hard to establish that there are "hidden truths", just so they can use our faith (ignorance) in those who claim to have access to "higher forces", which, because the unwashed are so ignorant and unworthy, makes THEM fit to rule. IMHO, there is a very high probability that this is where the concept of "god" came from.
It is TRUE that if you negatively affect the survival of anyone or those who they care about or "touch their stuff" that there will be physical consequences. Or, as DB states "Protests Are a Force of Nature"
"Even modern science recognises that we live in an illusion."
BS. I caution you regarding accepting unproven general statements. What true science does state is an interest in the MEASURABLE and PROVABLE and wisely, like me considers anything outside of this realm to be sheer speculation regarding nothing. If is is REAL, it can be measured.
And, to the uninformed, the REAL accomplishments of science appear indistinguishable from magic (something exists, don't know how). Many charlatans claim to represent and use science as pretexts to manipulate people out of their property. They exist (prey by lies) at the interface between the state and "education" (remember AGW). These people are misrepresenting "science" and attempting to replace the moral and power vacuum left after Nietze "killed god" and we threw out the necessary (for collective survival) moral truths out with "god". If god and religious values is a lie, like all good lies, they contained a high percentage of truth.
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Posted by Summer on 03/02/11 05:40 AM
I enjoyed the feisty tone of this article.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Thank you.
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Posted by Skip on 03/02/11 01:37 AM
Though I respect the DB for its fairness and balance, it would be nice to have GC making his own case here. think it is patently unfair to offer and critique someone else's thoughts and not giving the the opportunity to orchestrate them directly.
Kinda like a prosecutor reviewing a witness's testimony to a jury in summary form--despite the witness not taking the witness box. I don't currently get GC's newsletter, but I have. He seems perfectly able to make his own case; and, as well stand up under cross examination from DB.
Reply from The Daily Bell
We didn't intend for it to be an attack; we were very careful to present his bona fides right at the top of the article. In fact we agreed with his excellent analysis; our single point of disagreement was his emphatic statement that these color revolutions were spontaneous. He makes the case emphatically, so we felt we were within ethical boundaries to reply. And we did. It is a point of incredible significance.
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Posted by Gavin on 03/02/11 12:03 AM
"Whosoever declares he lives in an illusion speaks the truth. It is well that he speaks for himself, though. He can ignore this. It is not real."
I have a different way of looking at it. If it's an illusion it can be manipulated through mind. That is what the PTW do with their fear-mongering and constant messages of hopelessness. It gives them an edge so in that respect they are well ahead of us.
I don't advocate that people ignore what's going on. To the contrary I think it's important to keep fighting and expose what they're up to. Things will fall into place. At the same time it's important not to let them drag us down to feel that all is lost because it works to their advantage.
Call me naive but personally I think the cards are stacked against them. It's just a matter of time.
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Posted by Kathy Terry on 03/01/11 11:47 PM
Click to view link
Great interview on RT, Anthony.
Spreading the good word. I've added The Daily Bell to our list and also to the "missed sites" list.
Thanks again, Mondo Frazier, DBKP
Reply from The Daily Bell
Thanks!
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Posted by John Danforth on 03/01/11 10:02 PM
Whosoever declares he lives in an illusion speaks the truth. It is well that he speaks for himself, though. He can ignore this. It is not real.
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Posted by John Danforth on 03/01/11 09:57 PM
@Bill;
You wrote, "I have intellectual issues with Ayn Rand for her failure to differentiate between "selfish" and "self-interest"."
You are mistaken.
Please read the foreword in this work (better yet, enjoy the whole thing):
Click to view link
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Posted by Gavin on 03/01/11 09:15 PM
@Bill Ross
"Occult "something from nothing" is used to rationalize many things, none of them good"
Occult simply means 'hidden.' Even the bible and koran are occult books since they contain hidden teachings. Sure many people will interpret these books for their own ends but the mystic will read them in a different light.
As for freedom, I agree with your 12:06 comment that it's basically a state of mind. One person can have everything in the world and still be miserable -- look at the PTB, they still haven't got their global dictatorship -- but another can be in very different situation and totally free. A bit extreme but take the following...
"A man was chased over a cliff by a tiger. He managed to stop his fall by clinging to a hanging vine. As he looked down, he saw that it was a hundred-foot drop to the river. At the edge of the cliff the tiger loomed hungrily and a mouse was slowly gnawing at the vine just above his head. As he looked at the face of the cliff he saw a rare flower vibrant with color and sweet scent. He smiled, plucked the flower from the cliff and remarked---How wonderful! To find such a rare flower in this time of year."
As for the Truth (or the Real), I think it's beyond the physical realm. Even modern science recognises that we live in an illusion.
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Posted by Zenbillionaire on 03/01/11 08:23 PM
@ Bill
"Nope, they destroyed the "rule of law" which insured that the productive and civilized survived and those tending to be unproductive were either marginalized or, forced by true "necessity" of survival to choose to be productive. "
I think you're just taking a shorter view with this Bill. I understand your point, however the net result is that stress has been exerted on the productive portion of the herd; we've been bound somehow to support an unsupportable load. As you point out in great detail, this situation cannot be sustained. Therefore we will adapt and evolve both as a species and a culture. Those who don't will die.
Evolutionary pressure comes in many forms, but it is necessary.
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Posted by Bill Ross on 03/01/11 07:51 PM
@Zen
"They provide the predator that culls the herd"
Nope, they destroyed the "rule of law" which insured that the productive and civilized survived and those tending to be unproductive were either marginalized or, forced by true "necessity" of survival to choose to be productive. All in the name of "fairness" (equality of results, independent of efforts).
I believe it is more a matter of:
"They are the predator that manipulated the herd to cull the productive, to get a percentage"
We can see how well this has worked out, so the system is imploding. We will be culling ourselves. It won't be pretty, if history is any indication and the power of the weapons we are too foolish to use wisely.
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Posted by Zenbillionaire on 03/01/11 07:39 PM
@ DB
"They'll survive." (in response to WorkingClass' short but sweet assessment of world affairs)
They must. They provide the predator that culls the herd and spurs evolution. Will our species ever evolve beyond the need for predation? I can't see how. Without stress there is no adaptation, no change and no growth. Humans are apex predators and we are our own worst enemy, but if we didn't do it to ourselves we'd stagnate and die off. We may do that anyway but if we stop killing each other it's bound to happen sooner than later.
Maybe TPTB can retire when lizards invade the planet.
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Posted by Zenbillionaire on 03/01/11 07:10 PM
To paraphrase Sigmund, sometimes a revolution is just a revolution...
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Posted by Geoff Masen on 03/01/11 06:33 PM
@Bill Ross
"So, just because we have "right to life", and so does everyone else, this does not mean at the expense of anyone, other than ourselves (and, our parents, if children, until we reach personal responsibility). We have a "right to choose to survive" and, the only way to do it, without violating someone else's "right to life" (creating conflict) is by honest, mutually agreed trade of our labor and property (stored labor)."
I agree and must have misunderstood your quote. By "heavy lifting" I mean, as you put it, "choosing to survive". I suppose I was clarifying to myself that while liberty is natural (or given at birth), it can only be realized through the hard work of "choosing to survive".
The definition of justice is quite right, although problematic the moment that our present situation crumbles. If usury were crushed tomorrow , how would it deal with those earners who have nothing real to trade. Many people have elected to contribute to civilization (according to the rules) and yet would have no place. Would justice be suspended, or forced to adopt some consideration for whatever turns out to be true? No one knows the rules.
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