Israel & Obama: What's Up With That?
Once again I hasten to point out that this isn't something I know very much about, especially if to understand it one has to be informed about the entire history of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Still, as my mother used to say in the last years of her life, it is difficult to fathom why Israel is being picked on so much? Is it religion? Is it its closeness to the United States of America?
Some will say Israel is an artificial entity but that cannot be it – nearly every country is an artificial entity. All borders are made up. The only difference is how recently! And, as the work of Professor Barry Smith of SUNY Buffalo has shown, some of them are more sensible, as when they follow some coast line or river, than others, when they attempt to carve out some kind of geometrical area for themselves.
But here the issue of borders is moot. Let's just realize that when a country has deadly enemies around it, the size of the area which separates it from those enemies makes a lot of difference. President Obama has proposed that Israel go back to the pre-1967 borders where it would be surrounded by such groups as Hamas and separated from them by only six miles. A great many influential people living in these regions are on record wanting Israel to disappear, to be abolished as a country.
Even if one has little sympathy for Israel's official viewpoint, no one in his right mind can expect the leaders of that country to comply with President Obama's suggestion. It is a recommendation for suicide.
But why? Mr. Obama himself appears to be committing something near political suicide since a great many Americans of a wide variety of persuasions about Israel would not favor his recommendation. Responses to his proposal confirm this. It just makes no sense given how the main purpose of government is to protect the citizens' rights and for the Israeli government this must mean keeping the likes of Hamas at a distance that is safe. And no one can argue that by going back to the 1967 borders this task can be achieved, not especially with the great technical advances in the range of offensive weapons since 1967!
So I just do not get it. What is Mr. Obama after? Does he want to endear himself to all those countries that are anti-Israeli? Is he trying to befriend anti-Semites around the world? It isn't even fathomable that he has thought this through carefully, at least not with the information available to those who have been following his public utterances about the matter. Does he perhaps simply want to foster a total stalemate, given how it makes no sense to think that Israel will follow this suggestion or even that Mr. Obama could believe that Israel would do so.
Whatever one's view is of Israel it cannot be sensible to demand that the country voluntarily abolish itself. So then what is this all about? Is it just some kind of geopolitical gambit to the effect that Israel can be given up, even after decades of "investment" in the country made at the expense of the American taxpayer? (Not that this could be justified morally but perhaps given the statist nature of most diplomacy it could make some sense.)
Or is it really simply plain, unabashed anti-Semitism? I was once witness to this, when I lived briefly with my father in Munich and in America where he never let up on his virulent hatred of Jews. I remember that it was completely irrational – for instance, at one time he concocted the notion that Jews in Hollywood conspired to cast actors who "looked Jewish" into heroic movie roles so as to gain the Jews favor with the movie going public. His example if I recall right was when MacDonald Carey, who was supposedly Jewish looking by my father's warped assessment, starred as a hero, opposite Rhonda Fleming, in the movie Odongo (the plot of which I have completely forgotten).
Now I recount this only because it illustrates for me, at least, to what lengths anti-Semites will go to promote their bizarre conspiracy theories about Jews. And my father held a responsible job at Radio Free Europe back then, although he wasn't very public about his anti-Semitic views by the mid-50s, unlike when he was back in the 40s when Hungary was filled with rabid anti-Semites – I believe they were of the Iron Cross persuasion.
So it is not at all unpalatable to me to consider that some highly placed American politicians could well harbor blatant anti-Semitic sentiments. Mind you, none of this comes from any inside information about Mr. Obama and his administration. What it comes from is my desperate effort to make sense of something so senseless as Mr. Obama's recommendation to Israel that the country commit suicide by going back to the 1967 borders which would certainly leave them utterly vulnerable to destruction by its avowed nearby enemies! Some people do feel about Jews and about Israel in ways that could conceivably lead them to make such proposals.
Posted by David_Robertson on 05/24/11 01:15 PM
As I understand your position you are suggesting that if we get rid of the governing structures created by the elites and stop them brainwashing the people of the world then we would be able to set up more just governance and resolve many of the apparently insoluble problems facing us today, including those in the Middle East.
What you are voicing is exactly the purpose of the coming Kingdom of God. It is interesting to see that your desires are expressing the will of God although you may be unaware of it. As I watch the unfolding events of the Day we are living in I am seeing more and more the foreshadowing of the Kingdom as the structures of the world government systems are slowly being undermined and dismantled and the promised unveiling of the true condition of the human race in bondage to wickedness is being revealed.
Another specific promise that is being fulfilled is the displacement of the prince of the power of the air by the rule of the Kingdom of God. The air in this context is the communications systems of mankind that have been dominated in past ages by the powers of evil resident in the carnal mind of men. These ages are coming to an end and one sign of this is the internet revolution which is a material manifestation of a spiritual reality.
As The Daily Bell has pointed out on many occasions the internet is slowly overturning the grip of the governing elites on the minds of men. Their goal is world dominance which in reality they will never be permitted to attain to. The only new world order and world kingdom is now and always will be the Kingdom of God. The time of the visible manifestation of the Kingdom to all the world is at the very door.
Posted by R on 05/24/11 11:21 AM
Yes, and you actually reinforce all of my original points. Although it is often difficult to make clear in this style of forum, my comments are directed at those who propose the unilateral sudden destruction of the state of Israel. The destruction will NOT bring peace to this troubled land and culture. Elimination of the varied PE power structures and methods of indoctination are required......and I suggest that we start with our own country (The U.S.) first!
Posted by JM on 05/24/11 10:02 AM
This link is not posting porperly -- try for a cut and pste.
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Posted by JM on 05/24/11 10:00 AM
The last link should be:
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Sorry for the error.
Posted by JM on 05/24/11 09:56 AM
The Balfour Declaration of 1917 was a Rothschild construct to usurp Palestine for the Jews,
"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
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Ever since, the Palestinians have been slowly but steadily pushed out, confined and attacked.
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The Rothschilds have had their hand in Israel ever since, donating for the Knesset and the Supreme Court.
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Click to view link.il/lexicon/eng/rotchild_ja_eng.htm
A logical conclusion is that the founding and ongoing support of Israel by such as the Rothschilds has some very long-term and possibly world-control objectives. I'm not sure that the U.S. support of Israel is in our best interests, or the best interests of the rest of the world.
Methinks Dr. Machan has missed the real meat of this topic.
Posted by David_Robertson on 05/24/11 05:14 AM
Alex, do you have a link to the information you posted about the Israelis requesting citizenship in EU countries?
Posted by Reader on 05/24/11 04:49 AM
Click to view link.lb/english/upimg/Rachel-Corie-ship-2.jpg
Posted by Reader on 05/24/11 04:47 AM
"First when we recall the 'birth of Israel', we must stress the fact that this aggressive entity (Israel) was founded on usurping the lands of others, committing crimes against people, especially women and children, collective exodus and occupation and is still founded on this basis.
Consequently such an entity which is founded on usurp, massacres, exodus and occupation is not a legitimate entity, and it can't be a legitimate entity. The characteristic of legitimacy can't be endowed on it by any means."
Posted by bjp19 on 05/24/11 01:47 AM
Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim (Hebrew: ????????????????, pronounced [?a?k?'nazim], singular: [?a?k?'nazi]; also ???????? ???????????, Y'hudey Ashkenaz, "the Jews of Ashkenaz"), are the Jews descended from the medieval Jewish communities along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north. Ashkenaz is the medieval Hebrew name for this region and thus for Germany. Thus, Ashkenazim or Ashkenazi Jews are literally "German Jews." Later, Jews from Western and Central Europe came to be called "Ashkenaz" because the main centers of Jewish learning were located in Germany. (See Usage of the name for the term's etymology.) Ashkenaz is also a Japhetic patriarch in the Table of Nations (Genesis 10).
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Hitler's father was an Ashkenazi, note the Nazi in collection of letters.
If a man of Congo decent adopts the Celtic language and Celtic gods he is not a Celt. If a tribe from Europe adopts Judiasm he maybe a jew but not a Semite. Semites were tribes of the area that spoke the Semitic language.
A majority of the Israeli leadership over the years has been Ashkenazi. So just how Cecil Rhodes was sent to secure the diamonds and gold of South Africa the Ashkenazi, which the Rothschilds are fellow tribe members, were sent to divide and conquer for the oil.
This is a central thesis of the Anglo elite. That the DB has not picked up on this proves the editors have more work to do.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Do not confuse Dr. Machan's point of view with DB's. Earlier in this thread we pointed out this was not Dr. Machan's strongest article.
Posted by Danny B on 05/23/11 10:49 PM
One must keep perspective. The Anglo elites created israel to exacerbate Arab differences and prevent Pan-Arabism. Cheap oil and disunity were the objectives. Israel served as a forward garrison for controlling the oil. We send lots of military aid to our forward garrison. Israel serves as a thorn in the side of the Arabs. They fail to unite because they are obsessed with israel.
The British originally intended the area to be multi-cultural but, the jews had other ideas. They blew up the British headquarters at the King David hotel. The various jewish terror gangs Stern, Nehi and Irgun united and formed the IDF. The various terror gangs massacred Palestinian villages in an effort to end any multi-kulti. Dair Yasin served as a good example. "Early in the morning of April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun (headed by Menachem Begin)".
So, in the'40s, the massacres started. Even David Ben-Gurion stated that "we have stolen their land". The land was stolen and the people were massacred. The jews can't complain about bad feelings on the part of the Arabs. At Dair Yasi, the butchers stacked up bodies of women and children for photo-ops.
There was no massacre of jews by Arabs. There was no mass relocation of jews by arabs. This has nothing to do with semitism. It has everything to do with murder and stolen land. Y'all can dance around and try to avoid the truth. History is history.
So, the jews set the tone. It had previously been relatively peaceful. Israel was founded in blood from UNNECESSARY murder. The decades of ethnic-cleansing have inspired nothing but hatred from the arabs.
Posted by Wayne on 05/23/11 09:37 PM
This is a very emotional subject!
It shouldn't be, but it is.
The other nightmare created by the Anglo elite is Pakistan, which is now also getting very hot.
One must wonder what motivation the Anglo elite had when they created these Circuses/Nightmare.
Perhaps it was meant as the final test of Freud/Bernays theories.
If they could pull this off, they really can control anyone and anything.
And normal, average people are the lab rats for the test.
The PE are beyond sick. Twisted is a complimentary word for them.
Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao, Ceausescu, and NATO(all members of NATO's military forces) are all cut from the same cloth.
Remember Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc. All civilian targets with no military importance. Genocide, plain and simple.
Just a continuation of the genocide of the American Indians (just had to get all that land for the railroads, and Lincoln was a Railroad Attorney), and the interment camps in the US that were used to arrest the Japanese during WWII (Gee, all the property was confiscated). And the burning of all books written in German during WWI in the US.
And I'm just discussing the US here. I can't begin to grasp the evil also done by the rest of the nations (collectives).
Why should we be surprised at the horror of the Middle East situation?
We always do this to someone.Sharing is caring!
Posted by Peter Brock on 05/23/11 07:10 PM
The day Palestine was converted to Israel and the Palestinians wound up in refugee camps with no right of return and their ancestral lands were confiscated the trouble began. Absent any proposal to make the Palestinians whole the current problems will continue ad infinitem as they have for 50 years. Since this will never happen there will never be a solution. Case closed.
Posted by Wayne on 05/23/11 05:55 PM
The World did just fine before Israel, and it will do just fine after Israel is gone. And the Jews will be far better off once these crazy Zionists stop trying to "force the coming of the Messiah". Very few Jews are Messianic in their beliefs.
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And most Zionists are just wannabe Jews. Many Jews are not amused by this.
Time to let all this Drama go, and work on building a better world for everybody, via the free markets.
Posted by Habu on 05/23/11 05:49 PM
If obamas formulation succeeds then Isreal will be forced to go nuclear and then we all get a WWIII NUCLEAR WAR. obama is a clear and present danger to US and world stability ..a narcissistic sociopath.
Posted by crowwoman35 on 05/23/11 04:54 PM
If the U.S. stops supporting Israel for any reason, WWIII will accelerate big time. In the U.S. Govt environs there are fundamentalists who are trying to make Biblical prophecy come true. What better way than withdrawing support from Israel. Without that some Northern countries like Syria & Lebanon could conceivably launch a huge army that would fulfill Biblical prophecy by attacking Israel from the North while from the South there'd be Iran & who knows who else? This is in prophecy & those fundamentalists want this done to speed up the coming of Jesus Christ to save the world & get the temple built in Israel. You go figure & WWIII would probably be a nuclear disaster. So who knows? What do the elites want? Obama is their shill, he'll do as he's told. He doesn't work independently.
Posted by robert wheeless on 05/23/11 02:43 PM
Me thinks the dissinters protest too loudly. Their condemning Dr. Machan views as anti-semitic belie their own anti-semitic beliefs.
Shame on you, dissinters. More power to you, Dr. Machan.
Posted by bjp19 on 05/23/11 01:45 PM
European tribes converting to Judiasm (in the 11th century) and moving to the Mid East at the urging of the Anglo elite and occupying and killing Semitic people, yet when the Semitic Arabs respond to the European tribe that occupies the area, they become the anti-Semites...
Posted by bjp19 on 05/23/11 01:27 PM
Tibor I didnt think you used newspeak. The Palestinians cannot be anti Semite if you know the definition of Semite.
A member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
In fact since Israel is run by Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim are the Jews descended from the medieval Jewish communities along the Rhine in Germany...they are the true anti-Semites.
I am very disappointed in the Bell for missing the meme that made Arabs non Semites and Jews the only Semites.
SAD SAD SAD
Posted by David_Robertson on 05/23/11 01:25 PM
This is very good news Alex. It possibly means that a many Israelis see the writing on the wall and are making arrangements to flee when the inevitable denouement appears to be at the door. The Hong Kong Chinese did something similar in the run-up to the 1997 return of Hong Kong to the PRC. I know because I was living in Vancouver at the time and it quickly became known as Hongcouver.
I hope that many Palestinians are also so prescient. I can't tell you how pleased I am about this news, seriously.
Posted by David_Robertson on 05/23/11 01:16 PM
I applaud your intent to bring peace to the region. Sadly the ideological commitment on both sides is too firmly cemented in and, as I noted in another post, the leadership on both sides find it profitable to collaborate in maintaining the status quo.
The most one can do I believe is to encourage anyone you know to leave the region before the nuclear holocaust takes place. It really is a desperate situation.