The Daily Bell Newswire – It's Free!

News & Analysis

The Gutenberg Parenthesis ... Fashionable Nonsense?

Friday, July 15, 2011 – by Staff Report

Digital first: what it means for journalism ... Journalists have roles to play in collaborating with and organising communities – and the article is just part of the mix ... The article is no longer the atomic unit of news. It's not dead. I didn't kill it. But in the age of online – of "digital first," as the Guardian defined its strategy this month – we should reconsider the article and its place. No longer do the means of production and distribution of media necessitate boxing the world into neat, squared-off spaces published once a day and well after the fact. Freed of print's strictures, we are finding many new and sometimes better ways to gather and share information. – UK Guardian

Dominant Social Theme: Journalism is so passé.

Free-Market Analysis:  Last week, a Daily Bell editorial by Anthony Wile examined an article by The Economist magazine entitled, Wishful Thinking: Why The Economist Wants Social Media to Replace Blogs. The Economist article proposed that mass media was fading and that citizen journalism – enhanced by social media – was taking over. It seemed to us a somewhat suspect idea, a kind of dominant social theme aimed at de-emphasizing reporting in an era where so many power-elite themes have come under attack. Now we have discovered the underlying academic work supporting this sort of thinking.

The theme that is garnering considerable attention is called the "Gutenberg Parenthesis." A recent article in the UK Guardian by reporter Jeff Jarvis explored the meaning of this Parenthesis. He has written a book called Public Parts, and in doing research for it had stumbled upon academic analysis from the University of Southern Denmark that proposed, "What they magnificently call the Gutenberg parenthesis." Here's how Jarvis summarizes it:

At the start of the parenthesis and before print, information and knowledge were passed around orally and copied by scribes, remixed in the process. Inside the parenthesis, in five centuries dominated by text, our information like our world-views became concrete and serial, with beginnings and ends. Or, as Marshall McLuhan wrote: "The line, the continuum – this sentence is a prime example – became the organising principle of life." Today, on this side of the parenthesis, we are returning to a process orientation as media become malleable and remixed. This, the Danes say, affects our cognition of our world.

When people talk fondly of newspapers and books they aren't praising just their physical form: the feel and smell, the portability and tangibility. Printed text has boundaries and limits; it is a product of scarcity. Print feels finite, digital infinite. But print is also limiting while digital is freeing. In the transition, abundance is unsettling.

This discussion over the fate of the article has direct relevance to those wanting to shift to digital first. Going digital does not mean merely putting articles online before the presses roll, as then print still rules the process. No – digital first means the net must drive all decisions: how news is covered, in what form, by whom, and when. It dictates that when journalists know something, they are prepared to share it with their public. They may share what they know before their knowledge is complete so the public can help fill in blanks.

Jarvis believes that the Internet is "resetting" the journalistic relationship and that in the future, news organizations shall function as "open platforms." The platform may include "curating people and their information, providing applications and tools, gathering data, organising effort, educating participants ... and writing articles." The age of mainstream media, in other words, is over – a perspective the Economist magazine presented as well.

Approvingly, Jarvis quotes John Paton, chief executive of the American newspaper company Journal Register, who has as his modern motto, "digital first, print last." Patton doesn't believe print is dead, but does believe that a digital strategy must determine both news process and business strategy. Print will only continue so long as it justifies its expense and asserts its value.

In reading this sort of an analysis (admittedly from the left-wing Guardian) one is struck again by the eagerness to discard a methodology of communication that is thousands of years old. About 10 years ago, it was fashionable to suggest that the Internet would "revolutionize" communication. There was, for a while, a good deal of breast-beating over this, mostly from journalists employed at major publications.

In the meantime, there have been SOME changes in the way the news is delivered. Blogs and forums have blossomed on the 'Net. But for the most part the FORM hasn't changed. Books and articles remain with us for very good reasons. Both types of communication have beginning, middles and ends. They have problems they present and solutions they offer. Human beings are biologically programmed along these lines. Primates are problem solving creatures. We want to examine an obstacle and find a way around it.

Ask someone if he or she wishes to read mounds of open-ended information or a cogent analysis that summarizes the issue. Most may opt for the latter, time being a limiting and most precious resource. Articles and books are ways of organizing information that conform to instinctual human preferences. That's why they were invented in the first place. They're not going away.

Of course, plenty of people would LIKE them to go away. That's the real reason for all this hoopla. The Anglosphere power elite in particular, that continually hones its ambitions for a new world order, would like nothing more than to turn the entire Internet into a vast wasteland of celebrity commentary leavened with sports trivia. Having mistakenly mid-wifed the Internet via DARPA, they now seek to dumb it down.

Jarvis cites Andy Carvin of National Public Radio as an example of a post-Internet media maven. He is a "social strategist who has been tweeting and retweeting news from the Arab Spring, up to 1,300 times in a day. He adds journalistic value: finding witnesses who are on the ground and tapping into their networks; vetting facts and debunking rumours; assigning users to translate videos; adding context – but writing no articles."

But here is our question: Would you rather read 1,300 tweets and watch disparate videos or, pressed for time, would you prefer a cogent article reporting on the action and providing a summary of what it means? Articles and books provide us with a frame of reference, a way of understanding what is at stake quickly and efficiently. Additional information is wonderful, but only after one understands the initial issue.

This is, in fact, why the subject matter at open forums usually have an article or book excerpt around which commentary is built. It is difficult to offer additional commentary when there is no substantive issue laid out; it is hard to offer a summation when the information is lacking to begin with.

Jarvis uses the Texas Tribune as an example of his new paradigm. Here, he writes, a majority of traffic goes not to articles but to searchable databases where "readers-cum-users dig up facts." This process mimics the "the architecture of the Internet: end-to-end, witness-to-world, without a central gatekeeper."

Jarvis is not only enamored of this process, he points out that is immensely useful. Carvin, we are told used his "crowd" to unmask the jailed Syrian lesbian blogger Amina as an American man. "Twitter," he tweeted, "is the best tool in the world for debunking rumours and hoaxes."

Or maybe not. Maybe the whole thing was a US intelligence operation gone wrong. We've written about the Amina story as well. It so happened that individual behind Amina placed her (his) story online at the site of ANOTHER blogger who was ALSO a man happening to be posing as a lesbian. And the material that the male/lesbian Amina shared with the other male/lesbian was then rebroadcast to further websites and thence made its way to sympathetic mainstream media outlets.

What Jarvis thinks was an expose was perhaps a coverup. The Amina story, if properly probed, seems to reveal a juvenile American intelligence concoction; it is apparently the work of young US intelligence operatives who were tasked with presenting Syria as a backwards and repressive place. For these young men, presenting false lesbian blogs was likely both an intelligence gimmick and an elaborate practical joke – one that turned sour when Amina was "abducted" by Syrian authorities causing an international outcry that unraveled the entire operation.

We note (as predicted) that the entire episode has apparently been squelched. No lawsuits; no further commentary. US military ops has surely taken care of lingering ramifications. Both "lesbians" are likely free to generate other propaganda as necessary. You can see the article here: Gay Ops of American Intel?.

This is a good example, then, of citizen journalism. According to Jarvis, the fake lesbian Amina was revealed as a result of citizens' use of technology. According to us (and some other alternative media sources to be sure), the Texas Tribune's intrepid "citizen journalists" may only have discovered half the story at best.

Is Jarvis confusing the medium with the message? The Internet's main utility is that it has allowed those WITH communicative and investigative skills the opportunity to bypass the elite's "gatekeepers" and reach a wider audience. But Jarvis seems to believe the Internet will REPLACE such people.

Jarvis provides us with another example, that of Postmedia, a Canadian newspaper company that used articles as a secondary source or information. The company had reporters on campaign buses feed Twitter and Tumblr and post photos and videos. Later on, a rewrite man turned the material into articles.

Of course, we are sure that neither the initial information nor the follow-up articles dealt with fundamental issues of Western polity and economics. Chances are those "tweeters" involved did not question the validity of environmental concerns, the utility of taxation, the real reasons for price inflation, etc. In other words, the flood of digital information provided no deeper insights. Quantity did not generate quality. It merely reinforced the status quo.

What we may have here is another dominant social theme – a kind of elite-sponsored promotion that seeks to trivialize what is most powerful about the Internet, and thus to confuse people about its worth. They are, in fact, battling the 'Net now on every level and creating diversions about its real strengths is simply another attack. 

Conclusion: From our point of view, the real value of the 'Net is its ability broadcast voices that would as yet be unheard and provide a platform for likeminded individuals who wish to amplify or otherwise add little-known information and insights to what is being discussed. Ironically, it is pretty much an updated print model, enhanced by digital resources. Nothing much changes. The Gutenberg parenthesis is, perhaps, an academic concept, not a real one. 




Latest Daily Bell Articles

Feedback

Effective April 25, 2012, the Daily Bell will discontinue allowing feedback comments. We have left in place the large body of responses posted in the past, as we appreciate the valuable contributions made by some of our readers.
Showing 1 - 17 of 17 - Newest on top - Reorder Feedback
  Posted by amanfromMars on 07/18/11 01:03 PM

"Conclusion: From our point of view, the real value of the 'Net is its ability broadcast voices that would as yet be unheard and provide a platform for likeminded individuals who wish to amplify or otherwise add little-known information and insights to what is being discussed. Ironically, it is pretty much an updated print model, enhanced by digital resources. Nothing much changes. The Gutenberg parenthesis is, perhaps, an academic concept, not a real one." ...... - by Staff Report

Nothing much changes, DB? Well, I suppose that is fully dependent upon what is printed in updates enhanced by digital resources and binary sources.

"What you need to be considering, and it is quite revolutionary, is that SMART InterNetworking is that which is now governing and leading media storytelling to deliver 21st Century Virtual Reality as the default digital landscape shaping the Future of Mankind." ..... 18 July 2011 at 3:51 pm .... Click to view link

And it is not only what you may be saying, but also to who you would be saying it, that makes all the difference, even whenever those to whom you have been speaking say nothing, for in important cases, does such silence speak volumes as to the lack of intelligence in third parties, revealing systemic vulnerabilities for subsequent exploitation and zeroday use and/or misuse ...... :-) depending upon which side of the fence one would wish reside.

  Posted by English Chris on 07/18/11 02:31 AM

Posted by memehunter on 07/18/11 01:36 AM
"Hm-mm. You are a practitioner either of irony or sarcasm. Not sure which. We long though the moon landings real and came late to doubt. Now we remained doubtful, or at least skeptical. So much else is lies - why not the moon landing too? Anyway, pick yourself up, man. Live in peace, not in pieces."

I can understand the feeling expressed by English Chris (assuming the post expressed authentic feelings). I did not have such strong feelings when realizing that the Moon landings were fake because by that time I was already skeptical about a few other topics (admittedly it was probably limited to 9/11, JFK, the financial system, and some aspects of organized religion at the time, but that's a start...). But I can imagine what a disillusionment this can be. This is probably one of the reasons why I get such negative reactions and personal attacks when I try to expose the moon landing hoax on other blogs.

By the way, DB, I understand that you prefer to remain cautious, but you should be a lot more than "skeptical" by now.

Does anyone have any satisfactory answers for the questions I asked in my post on 07/16/11 12:51 AM (and I'm not even including the windows controversy, which may well be almost enough to debunk the entire myth by itself)? I am not putting you on the spot, I don't have answers either.

As I said to "Martin B" (a self-proclaimed Ph.D. in physics) over at Mangan's:

"The simplest and most logical explanation as to why you can't answer these questions satisfactorily is that no manned spacecraft was ever sent to the Moon."

This is an excerpt from his final answer:

"No, the explanation is that you do not argue in good faith, you do not respond to other people's arguments, so it is a waste of time to talk to you. I can answer those questions. I'm not going to bother answering them for you."

If that's the best that the hoax defenders can come up with on these questions, I can say with 99.9% certainty that the case is closed, as far as I am concerned.

"Hm-mm. You are a practitioner either of irony or sarcasm. Not sure which."

The feeling of "hate" was a genuine splenetic metal outburst whilst transitioning and coming out the other side.

The transition state was feeling that it would be better not to know the truth.

Be reassured that I have come out the other side, but as meme hunter says this is probably why there is so much anger at his posts, and further why DB is laying a hook for the skeptics with his less radical line of having some doubts, which might have caught me.

  Posted by memehunter on 07/18/11 01:36 AM

"Hm-mm. You are a practitioner either of irony or sarcasm. Not sure which. We long though the moon landings real and came late to doubt. Now we remained doubtful, or at least skeptical. So much else is lies - why not the moon landing too? Anyway, pick yourself up, man. Live in peace, not in pieces."

I can understand the feeling expressed by English Chris (assuming the post expressed authentic feelings). I did not have such strong feelings when realizing that the Moon landings were fake because by that time I was already skeptical about a few other topics (admittedly it was probably limited to 9/11, JFK, the financial system, and some aspects of organized religion at the time, but that's a start...). But I can imagine what a disillusionment this can be. This is probably one of the reasons why I get such negative reactions and personal attacks when I try to expose the moon landing hoax on other blogs.

By the way, DB, I understand that you prefer to remain cautious, but you should be a lot more than "skeptical" by now.

Does anyone have any satisfactory answers for the questions I asked in my post on 07/16/11 12:51 AM (and I'm not even including the windows controversy, which may well be almost enough to debunk the entire myth by itself)? I am not putting you on the spot, I don't have answers either.

As I said to "Martin B" (a self-proclaimed Ph.D. in physics) over at Mangan's:

"The simplest and most logical explanation as to why you can't answer these questions satisfactorily is that no manned spacecraft was ever sent to the Moon."

This is an excerpt from his final answer:

"No, the explanation is that you do not argue in good faith, you do not respond to other people's arguments, so it is a waste of time to talk to you. I can answer those questions. I'm not going to bother answering them for you."

If that's the best that the hoax defenders can come up with on these questions, I can say with 99.9% certainty that the case is closed, as far as I am concerned.

Reply from The Daily Bell

"By the way, DB, I understand that you prefer to remain cautious, but you should be a lot more than "skeptical" by now."

We are entirely skeptical; but having no definitive proof, we shall not make a definitive statement.

  Posted by English Chris on 07/17/11 08:16 PM

DB, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, you have shattered my state of mind, destroyed my most cherished beliefs in the achievements of man.

Have just started to gain respect for the DB in other subjects, I pondered why on earth would such a world class thinker give credence to utter bunk. Everyone knows that we landed on the moon, it is the De Facto truth, and you have to be either mad or insane to think otherwise.

That is why I pulled my book of the Cosmos with glossy A4 pictures down off the shelf for me wallow in the crystal sharp brightly illuminated pictures of the Moon Landing and sit back with a self satisfied smug feeling of I know I'm right, and the DB is wrong at least on the subject of faked Moon Landing, Ha Ha, I know a thing or two.

But alas all is woe, and I HATE YOU DB, you have made it clear that I'm a fool, an idiot, and clearly no free thinker.

The pictures of the moon that I have cherished as a youth prove until yesterday did not stand up to a critical inspection by myself. The light sources are all over the show, shadows that are impossible from a single light source millions of miles away. How can I have been so blind! How often have I looked at them without engaging my brain.

Hence, I HATE YOU for puncturing my fake world.

Please put my fake world back together forthwith as the lies and deceptions are far more comfortable, than knowing all the space museums that I have ever visited have been nothing more than a mountebank to perpetuate a hoax large than 9/11.

Oh well - as I calm down - at least now I know what gave the international elite the confidence that they could trammel intelligent minds with the 9/11 demolitions.

Yours, a shattered man.

Reply from The Daily Bell

Hm-mm. You are a practitioner either of irony or sarcasm. Not sure which. We long though the moon landings real and came late to doubt. Now we remained doubtful, or at least skeptical. So much else is lies - why not the moon landing too? Anyway, pick yourself up, man. Live in peace, not in pieces.

  Posted by memehunter on 07/17/11 12:32 AM

Posted by memehunter on 07/17/11 12:29 AM
"But the danger from radiation dosing is strength over time. So maybe if the exposure time is short, the risk is acceptable."

Yes, I essentially got this reply as well.

But, John, FIVE windows? And NASA was saying in 2005 that they needed to find a good shield?

Even if Van Allen is wrong when he says that the radiation would mean instant death for the astronauts, would you spend three days in deep space in a spacecraft with FIVE windows? I think we have enough information to suspect that this would be a very risky endeavor.

And again, we don't have to take my words for it: NASA admitted to be looking for a good shield (presumably not windows) in 2005...

By the way, the dangerous radiation is not confined to the Van Allen Belts, it is everywhere in deep space. See the NASA quote: "Space beyond low-Earth orbit is awash with intense radiation from the Sun and from deep galactic sources such as supernovas". The "Wagging the Moondoggie" site says the same thing, and very explicitly at that.

  Posted by memehunter on 07/17/11 12:29 AM

Posted by John Danforth on 07/16/11 06:28 PM
This question has come up before. I searched in vain for any information on the strength of the radiation flux in the Van Allen belts. There is more than one type of ionizing radiation to guard against, too, meaning that more than one kind of shielding might be required. But the danger from radiation dosing is strength over time. So maybe if the exposure time is short, the risk is acceptable. I just don't know enough about the actual conditions out there to be able to make a judgment.

I will say this though: the gold foil is a joke.

"But the danger from radiation dosing is strength over time. So maybe if the exposure time is short, the risk is acceptable."

Yes, I essentially got this reply as well.

But, John, FIVE windows? And NASA was saying in 2005 that they needed to find a good shield?

Even if Van Allen is wrong when he says that the radiation would mean instant death for the astronauts, would you spend three days in deep space in a spacecraft with FIVE windows? I think we have enough information to suspect that this would be a very risky endeavor.

And again, we don't have to take my words for it: NASA admitted to be looking for a good shield (presumably not windows) in 2005...

  Posted by John Danforth on 07/16/11 06:28 PM

Posted by memehunter on 07/16/11 01:19 PM
More tools to debunk the Apollo hoax:

Let's give some background with a quote attributed to James Van Allen, the discoverer of the Van Allen Belts:

'The windows installed on the spacecraft would provide the astronauts basically no protection against the deep space deadly radiation and any attempt to travel beyond earth's inner orbit would mean instant death for the astronauts.'

- Dr. James Van Allen

Click to view link

I was told that this quote by Van Allen is dubious and that, in any case, he may have said it in 1959, when presumably he did not know so much about space radiation.

But the main point is:
Were there, or were there not, windows on the Apollo spacecraft? It does not matter who said it. Did these windows protect adequately against the radiation? What does this tell us?


Now, juxtapose these two FACTS:

1) There were windows on the Apollo spacecraft (in fact no less than five of them according to Wikipedia)
Click to view link

2) on June 24, 2005, NASA admitted that radiation was "a potential showstopper" and that "Space beyond low-Earth orbit is awash with intense radiation from the Sun and from deep galactic sources such as supernovas … Finding a good shield is important.'
Click to view link

Bonus point for those who spot the problem.

Hint: is a window a good shield against cosmic radiation?

This may be the ultimate debunking tool and the most obvious one. It seems that I may be the first one to point this out so directly - I did not see this explicit juxtaposition anywhere else on the 'Net (not even on the "Wagging the Moondoggie" website).

This question has come up before. I searched in vain for any information on the strength of the radiation flux in the Van Allen belts. There is more than one type of ionizing radiation to guard against, too, meaning that more than one kind of shielding might be required. But the danger from radiation dosing is strength over time. So maybe if the exposure time is short, the risk is acceptable. I just don't know enough about the actual conditions out there to be able to make a judgment.

I will say this though: the gold foil is a joke.

  Posted by William3 on 07/16/11 05:30 PM

"The Internet's main utility is that it has allowed those WITH communicative and investigative skills the opportunity to bypass the elite's "gatekeepers" and reach a wider audience."

This is the best, and probably most important, explanation of the internet's value to journalism I have read anywhere.

It's also a positive message to ethical journalists everywhere: "You can research and write about a topic and print it without a biased editorial board approving it."

Well done, DB!

  Posted by memehunter on 07/16/11 01:19 PM

More tools to debunk the Apollo hoax:

Let's give some background with a quote attributed to James Van Allen, the discoverer of the Van Allen Belts:

'The windows installed on the spacecraft would provide the astronauts basically no protection against the deep space deadly radiation and any attempt to travel beyond earth's inner orbit would mean instant death for the astronauts.'

- Dr. James Van Allen

Click to view link

I was told that this quote by Van Allen is dubious and that, in any case, he may have said it in 1959, when presumably he did not know so much about space radiation.

But the main point is:
Were there, or were there not, windows on the Apollo spacecraft? It does not matter who said it. Did these windows protect adequately against the radiation? What does this tell us?


Now, juxtapose these two FACTS:

1) There were windows on the Apollo spacecraft (in fact no less than five of them according to Wikipedia)
Click to view link

2) on June 24, 2005, NASA admitted that radiation was "a potential showstopper" and that "Space beyond low-Earth orbit is awash with intense radiation from the Sun and from deep galactic sources such as supernovas … Finding a good shield is important.'
Click to view link

Bonus point for those who spot the problem.

Hint: is a window a good shield against cosmic radiation?

This may be the ultimate debunking tool and the most obvious one. It seems that I may be the first one to point this out so directly - I did not see this explicit juxtaposition anywhere else on the 'Net (not even on the "Wagging the Moondoggie" website).

  Posted by memehunter on 07/16/11 12:51 AM

Posted by Erik on 07/15/11 11:49 AM
"a kind of elite-sponsored promotion that seeks to trivialize what is most powerful about the Internet, and thus to confuse people about its worth. They are, in fact, battling the 'Net now on every level and creating diversions about its real strengths is simply another attack."

I have been fascinated by how well the PE are able to so effectively hide behind a veil of confusion between what appears real and what they have constructed. As an example, in my analysis of the moon landings as possibly faked, I have come to the conclusion that it was POSSIBLE to have faked them, but I can't profoundly PROVE they were faked, even to myself.

They lie as close to the truth as they can, perhaps?

Regarding this article, I find myself agreeing with Jarvis' points (as you have presented them) for brief moments, then your logic pulls me back. I feel at those times, that I am treading that 'barrier of confusion'.

I am amazed at how effectively the PE create that barrier. Right on the threshold of where our logic teeters. My conclusion?

Through their impressive network of think tanks and psy-ops institutions, they study current beliefs and understandings (constantly study), identify the 'location' of this flase-logic/logic threshold, and dance on it with themes that push the audience to the false-logic side with misinformation (i.e. diversions, propaganda, emotional pullstrings, etc.) That is, sophisticated manipulation.

This is the 'Dance of the Magician' (a phrase I just coined.)

Ant it is a dance on my head that is most difficult to de-mystify.

A proven recipe to debunk the Moon landings fiction:

I recently had the following exchange at Mangan's, an alt-right blog which I occasionally follow. I should note that although I am open-minded with respect to "human biodiversity" and like to read from blogs offering a variety of viewpoints, I do not endorse at all the "white supremacist" current that is sometimes underlying the discussions on that blog (I'm not sure I qualify as "white" for these people anyway, given my mother's Jewish origins).

Here are some of the most interesting snippets from an exchange between me ("Anonymous Moon Hoaxer") and "Martin B" (whom I suspect to be a paid shill because I have noticed that he intervenes immediately whenever topics such as 9/11, bin Laden's death, or the Moon landings are brought up - you can judge from that exchange whether I am right or wrong):

Anonymous Moon Hoaxer said...

"Martin B said...

Ph.D. in physics. Work in the "space biz". I guess that makes me a member of the conspiracy, huh?"

Well, that is interesting. It would be nice to see some additional piece of evidence to confirm that you are indeed what you say you are. I'm sure you would say the same if I were to simply state my credentials on this blog without any evidence, no? Fair game.

But, assuming that you are indeed working in the "space biz", perhaps you could tell us why, if NASA was able to send astronauts to the moon in the late 1960s (which I do not believe for a minute, but bear with me here), no one has been able to go to the Moon for 40 years? And please do not tell me that they were not interested in going back - they explicitly said that it was one of their goals in 2004. Why was NASA telling us in 2004 that we might not be able to go back before 2020?

You should be in a good position to know that the technology at our disposal is incommensurably more sophisticated than what we had in the 1960s - or would you care to disconfirm that?

Given your qualifications, how do you explain that since the last Apollo flight allegedly returned from the Moon in 1972, the furthest that any astronaut from any country has traveled from the surface of the Earth is about 400 miles?

Speaking of radiation, you probably know that on June 24, 2005, NASA made this rather remarkable admission: 'NASA's Vision for Space Exploration calls for a return to the Moon as preparation for even longer journeys to Mars and beyond. But there's a potential showstopper: radiation. Space beyond low-Earth orbit is awash with intense radiation from the Sun and from deep galactic sources such as supernovas … Finding a good shield is important.' (Click to view link

It seems that radiation was still a BIG problem in 2005, doesn't it? Why can't NASA simply use the same design they used in the 1960s if it actually worked?

I will be waiting eagerly for your answers. After all, most of us do not often have the opportunity to converse with a Ph.D. in Physics working in the "space biz"...
7/14/2011 11:41 PM


Anonymous Moon Hoaxer said...

@ Martin B:

Oh, and by the way, I ought to tell you that I would be happy to post your answers elsewhere on the 'Net. After all, why should Mangan's readers be the only ones to benefit from the knowledge of a Ph.D. in physics working in the "space biz"? Besides, it would be good for other people, who may be more qualified than I am, to examine your answers and check their validity for themselves.

So please try to do a good job. You can of course ask for help from your colleagues as well, I have no problems with that...

In the case that you cannot provide satisfactory answers, I may of course post elsewhere the list of questions I submitted here as a quick way to help other people debunk the Moon landing fiction.
7/15/2011 12:29 AM

[post by a third-party feedbacker omitted]

Martin B said...

"Anonymous Moon Hoaxer said...

Well, that is interesting. It would be nice to see some additional piece of evidence to confirm that you are indeed what you say you are. I'm sure you would say the same if I were to simply state my credentials on this blog without any evidence, no? Fair game."

"Fari game"? No. Especially not coming from someone named "Anonymous". No, I will not tell you about me, as I obviously go to some lengths to remain anonymous myself, as do most people on this website, and for obvious reasons.

And you didn't tell me anything about your background or why I should give a tinker's damn about what you say. Nor did you address the first two points I mentioned: 1.) that the length of stay planned was alot longer in Constellation, and 2.) that presumably James Van Allen's opinion on the lethality of space radiation in the late 90s is more relevant to the topic than what he thought in 1959 (if he indeed even said what you quoted). Given that you don't engage in argument - you just ignore what others write - I won't waste any further time arguing with you. You are an idiot, and a particularly dense one at that. I'm sure nothing I say will disabuse you of your ridiculous fantasy, anyway.
7/15/2011 7:04 AM

You can read the rest of the exchange here if you are interested:
Click to view link



Here is a self-proclaimed Ph.D. in physics working in the "space biz", and that's all he could come up with to answer my questions, which are crucial questions to ask to individuals promoting the Moon landing hoax. This is a big deal. When an "expert" cannot answer clearly these questions, you know that the whole edifice is crumbling. As I said somewhere else in the exchange: "No matter who is asking them, these questions directly address some of the most important issues regarding the alleged Moon landings."

He does bring up some minor issues brought up earlier in the exchange, however I would not say that he "won" the argument (you have to read the lead-up to the exchange I quoted to see why), but for the rest all he does is insulting, name-calling, evading the questions - a behavior that he exhibited during most of the exchange. Please note that I specifically informed him that I would be happy to post my list of questions and his answers elsewhere on the 'Net, so we can assume that this is probably the best he could come up with.

I would suggest to Erik, DB and other interested readers to keep in mind the list of questions I provided here as a proven method to debunk the alleged Moon landings.

Reply from The Daily Bell

Thanks Memehunter. The moon hoax, if that is what it is, does seem to be unravelling...

  Posted by Don on 07/15/11 01:23 PM

"What is truth?" - the PE's own Pontius Pilatus.

From my perspective it's true, more often than not, that Gutenberg Parenthesis journalism reinforced PE memes. For me, truth mostly exists at post-Gutenberg Parenthesis blogs and boards. For breaking news, tweets can connect me to local citizen journalist candidates at the scene. Caveat emptor - one must discern the truly human voice.

  Posted by Don on 07/15/11 12:10 PM

In the end, the Gutenburg Parentheis gave us deadly Dreamtime. Although the PE stumbled at the start of the Gutenburg Parentheis, it perservered until it taught itself to masterfully manufacture memes that goose stepped towards a new world order.

"DB: But here is our question: Would you rather read 1,300 tweets and watch disparate videos or, pressed for time, would you prefer a cogent article reporting on the action and providing a summary of what it means?"

It depends. If the cogent article carries the stench of a great adjudicator [1] reinforcing a PE meme then skimming 1,300 tweets searching for a grain of truth seems the better option.

The lede of Jarvis' article gets it right:

"Digital first: what it means for journalism

Journalists have roles to play in collaborating with and organising communities - and the article is just part of the mix"

Jarvis champions citizen journalism, ergo the DB elves "have roles to play in collaborating ..."

[1] Click to view link

Reply from The Daily Bell

cogent ...

1. convincing or believable by virtue of forcible, clear, or incisive presentation; telling.

2. to the point; relevant; pertinent.

Truthful, in other words ...

  Posted by John Danforth on 07/15/11 11:58 AM

Posted by Erik on 07/15/11 11:49 AM
"a kind of elite-sponsored promotion that seeks to trivialize what is most powerful about the Internet, and thus to confuse people about its worth. They are, in fact, battling the 'Net now on every level and creating diversions about its real strengths is simply another attack."

I have been fascinated by how well the PE are able to so effectively hide behind a veil of confusion between what appears real and what they have constructed. As an example, in my analysis of the moon landings as possibly faked, I have come to the conclusion that it was POSSIBLE to have faked them, but I can't profoundly PROVE they were faked, even to myself.

They lie as close to the truth as they can, perhaps?

Regarding this article, I find myself agreeing with Jarvis' points (as you have presented them) for brief moments, then your logic pulls me back. I feel at those times, that I am treading that 'barrier of confusion'.

I am amazed at how effectively the PE create that barrier. Right on the threshold of where our logic teeters. My conclusion?

Through their impressive network of think tanks and psy-ops institutions, they study current beliefs and understandings (constantly study), identify the 'location' of this flase-logic/logic threshold, and dance on it with themes that push the audience to the false-logic side with misinformation (i.e. diversions, propaganda, emotional pullstrings, etc.) That is, sophisticated manipulation.

This is the 'Dance of the Magician' (a phrase I just coined.)

Ant it is a dance on my head that is most difficult to de-mystify.

"I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I am the tool of the Government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin' out
From your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you

And eat the garbage that I feed you

Until the day that we don't need you

Don't got for help...no one will heed you

Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks..
Don't touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin' along on your livin'room floor

I am the slime from your video
Can't stop the slime, people, lookit me go"

--The late, great, Frank Zappa--

Reply from The Daily Bell

Though now some have questions about whom Zappa really worked for ...

  Posted by Erik on 07/15/11 11:49 AM

"a kind of elite-sponsored promotion that seeks to trivialize what is most powerful about the Internet, and thus to confuse people about its worth. They are, in fact, battling the 'Net now on every level and creating diversions about its real strengths is simply another attack."

I have been fascinated by how well the PE are able to so effectively hide behind a veil of confusion between what appears real and what they have constructed. As an example, in my analysis of the moon landings as possibly faked, I have come to the conclusion that it was POSSIBLE to have faked them, but I can't profoundly PROVE they were faked, even to myself.

They lie as close to the truth as they can, perhaps?

Regarding this article, I find myself agreeing with Jarvis' points (as you have presented them) for brief moments, then your logic pulls me back. I feel at those times, that I am treading that 'barrier of confusion'.

I am amazed at how effectively the PE create that barrier. Right on the threshold of where our logic teeters. My conclusion?

Through their impressive network of think tanks and psy-ops institutions, they study current beliefs and understandings (constantly study), identify the 'location' of this flase-logic/logic threshold, and dance on it with themes that push the audience to the false-logic side with misinformation (i.e. diversions, propaganda, emotional pullstrings, etc.) That is, sophisticated manipulation.

This is the 'Dance of the Magician' (a phrase I just coined.)

Ant it is a dance on my head that is most difficult to de-mystify.

  Posted by rossbcan on 07/15/11 11:34 AM

Posted by John Danforth on 07/15/11 09:04 AM
At first rather amusing, watching the comeuppance of command-and-control journalism is now just a little sad. Like an aging prostitute, having lost her natural appeal, casting about for any other effective means of attracting customers.

They've tried almost everything they could to fight the inevitable evolution brought on by the destruction of the natural barriers to communication that gave them their unwarranted power. Now it is almost pitiable to watch their self-examination, sifting through the remains, looking for some remainder of relevance. They see only through the prism they have erected to blind the rest of us with. They believe their own lies to the extent of delusional hubris.

The problem presented by the new reality is that if your words, perspective, and information have no value on their own merit, you are simply irrelevant. And nobody will voluntarily pay for irrelevance. (So naturally, watch for them to go for the smash-and-grab tactic next, which won't work either.)

"They see only through the prism they have erected to blind the rest of us with"

Yes, and, they are facing justice, the consequences of their own lies / actions.

Justice Defined: We are all free to profit or suffer and learn (adapt to excellence) by facing the consequences of our OWN choices. Injustice is to be forced to suffer the consequences of choices of unaccountable (irresponsible) others..

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern. The law of liberty tends to abolish the reign of race over race, of faith over faith, of class over class." ~ Lord Acton

...too bad it requires so much collateral damage (us, peace, civilization), but, then again, choosing to remain ignorant is not without consequences to the chooser, also "fair", in the unbiased, measurable, lack of emotional taint sense.

Civilizations end when the majority rejects fact, reason, peace and the neccessary compromize, REQUIRED for civilization:

"I will refrain from initiating aggression against you, should you do the same" Fail to comply and YOUR life (time and energy) will be consumed in my defensive conflict until I achieve compensation far in excess of any of (alleged, by you) your "proceeds of crime".

Predators will never "get it". Fact and reason (Plan A) has failed. Plan B will not.

  Posted by John Danforth on 07/15/11 09:04 AM

At first rather amusing, watching the comeuppance of command-and-control journalism is now just a little sad. Like an aging prostitute, having lost her natural appeal, casting about for any other effective means of attracting customers.

They've tried almost everything they could to fight the inevitable evolution brought on by the destruction of the natural barriers to communication that gave them their unwarranted power. Now it is almost pitiable to watch their self-examination, sifting through the remains, looking for some remainder of relevance. They see only through the prism they have erected to blind the rest of us with. They believe their own lies to the extent of delusional hubris.

The problem presented by the new reality is that if your words, perspective, and information have no value on their own merit, you are simply irrelevant. And nobody will voluntarily pay for irrelevance. (So naturally, watch for them to go for the smash-and-grab tactic next, which won't work either.)

  Posted by rossbcan on 07/15/11 07:18 AM

The "value" of the internet is the "value" of communication (the disemnation of intelligence, in intelligent mankind's quest to understand reality, to adapt and survive).

From (The attributes of man):

Click to view link

6.7 Communication

* "The ability, using agreed symbology to give and receive information to/from others"

This is a social capability of man, applicable only in a group setting. Communication allows the sharing of fact, opinion and knowledge among men. Theoretically, this implies a group of men could be as intelligent as the most intelligent member. In practice, this is rarely true. The most intelligent, like everyone else seeks personal advantage and a full sharing of knowledge is thus unlikely. Also, the most intelligent may not be accepted by the group as a leadership candidate since intelligence in a leadership position has the unpopular characteristic of interfering with immediate gratification on the part of the group at the expense of future survival. This is for the simple reason that intelligent people can predict the future, long term consequences of choice. This means that an intelligently managed life or civilization is a balance between immediate and future needs. The short term perspective of politicians, coupled with a complete lack of rights or consideration for the unborn is a major negative factor in current social, economic and environmental trends.

Even before discredited socialism achieved power, intelligent people predicted that the long term effects of uncontrolled political power, diminishing human motivation and work ethic must result in social and economic collapse. Corrupt leaders of the time saw this as a way to manipulate misguided fools to achieve temporary power at the expense of future survival. Millions died of starvation or were massacred in the implementation and reign of socialism. The entire former Soviet Union peoples will be paying the cost of this folly and crime against civilization for a very long time.

Just so we in the west do not feel superior, we are just as manipulated and will be paying for the consequences of socialism, the fraudulent "War on Terror" and centuries of third world exploitation and manipulation for a very long time, assuming the consequence is not extinction.