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Greek Downfall Would Be EU Setback

Monday, September 12, 2011 – by Staff Report

Wolfgang Schaeuble

German minister raises 'orderly default' for Greece … Germany has stepped up its rhetoric against Greece, warning that the debt-laden country could default on its debts in a move that highlights the growing divisions at the heart of Europe. Germany's economy minster has said an 'orderly default' for Greece can no longer be ruled out and branded the country's deficit-reduction measures "insufficient". The warning is likely to spook financial markets further and comes despite Greece yesterday announcing a fresh €2bn (£1.7bn) of budget cuts and the introduction of a country-wide real estate tax. – UK Telegraph

Dominant Social Theme: It's no big deal. Just let Greece go. It was a mistake to shove 'em into the EU in the first place.

Free-Market Analysis: We wait nervously for the fate of Greece to be decided. The power elite that seeks to run the world has taken many setbacks in the past few years and the severance of Greece from the European Union would be the most devastating yet.

We often make the argument that the great banking families that seek to run the world have not known what to do with the Internet. Like the Gutenberg Press before it, the Internet is gradually providing information to people about the way the world works that they did not have before.

We have pointed out this is a mysterious process that includes a kind of "hive mind" – as human beings are animals that are adept at mimicry. Today's mimicry involves disenchantment with much of what passed for "civilization" in the 20th Century.

Whether it is global warming, the war on terror or the various scarcity themes that the elites promote in order to manipulate Western middle classes into giving up power and wealth to globalist institutions, pushback has taken place. Unlike the 20th Century, people around the world are not so easily manipulated.

The elites control the mainstream media but the alternative media has given people an entirely different perspective. This can be seen in Europe and America when it comes to some fundamental dominant social themes such central banking. More people are questioning the system – and the corporations that drive it – in ways that they didn't during much of the 20th Century.

Now comes the potential crumbling of the EU. The EU was set up by the Anglosphere power elite to drive the world toward global government. The plan is evidently to create regions – large blocks of nation states – that can then be used to further one world governance. The EU is a fundamental elite meme. The powers-that-be do NOT want to lose it and have fought hard to maintain it. It has been built up through lies and malfeasance for over 50 years.

It is, however, endlessly corrupt and misleading. It was never meant to be a free-trade entity but was actually intended to be a repetition of Charlemagne's empire. This has colored every part of the project. Conceived as a lie, the EU is a simulacrum of what it is supposed to be.

In fact, it was set up to ensure that only a handful of Eurocrats have the power to make REAL decisions (as they compose a kind of ruling council that has no governors). This was necessary to keep control of the process, which was designed for a far different outcome than what people had been led to believe. The EU hasn't even been audited in the past years because no accounting corporation will sign off on the numbers.

What the Eurocrats have wanted in the near term is a United States of Europe complete with an army, a flag, a national anthem and regulatory democracy that only they can control. The flood of regulations issuing out of the Brussels has already bankrupted or at least severely damaged many, including fishermen who cannot fish, electricians who can only use certain wires of certain colors and car manufacturers that have to revise their vehicles to conform to increasingly onerous regulations.

When it came time to prepare an EU Constitution, the Eurocrats tried to pass a template for a federal state consisting of 27 nation-states run by the unelected EU Commission. Then there was the European Council comprised of representatives of the governments of member states that could stop legislation but not initiate it. The third body was the ineffectual European Parliament but the real power resided with the Commission.

Naturally, this power grab was defeated in votes by several countries, at which point the Eurocrats repackaged the worst elements as a treaty and rammed it through various Parliaments without popular votes. When the Irish voted against it, the country's leaders prevailed on the electorate to vote again, in order to ensure the "right" outcome.

At every stage, the EU and its Eurocrats have shown the world their contempt for a democratic (republican) process and their determination to build a "union" that can serve as a stepping stone to world government.

This is not, of course, a mainstream media argument. The mainstream media has been pro-EU and has pressed the myth that the EU is merely an elaboration of a common market and that the euro itself is an efficient fiat currency that helps the business climate.

But the actions of the top Eurocrats give the lie to this interpretation. The EU is a profoundly authoritarian entity and its most powerful bureaucrats evidently and obviously have been put in power by the powerful central banking families that continually promote world government.

For this reason, any setback to the EU will be a further setback to the plan for world government. The setback seems to be brewing even now. Greece's bankrupt position is not sustainable anymore. It cannot repay the money that it has borrowed without a devaluation. But it cannot have a devaluation without removing itself from the euro, even temporarily.

Germany's Der Spiegel magazine has reported that minister Wolfgang Schaeuble (above left) was preparing German institutions for a Greek bankruptcy – an "orderly default." Of course, the Eurocrats themselves are still trying to salvage the situation. This is because if Greece defaults it may well cause a chain reaction among Europe's other Southern PIGS – Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc,. – that are in many ways no better off than Greece. Here's some more from the article, excerpted above:

EU economy commissioner Olli Rehn said [his] team – which represents the troika of the Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF – would "provide technical support to the Greek authorities". The previous team was pulled out of Athens earlier this month because of a lack of progress by the Greek government in reducing its deficit.

Mr Rehn on Sunday praised Greece's new cuts, saying they would "go a long way to meeting the fiscal targets" for 2010 and 2011. "Greece needs to meet the agreed fiscal targets and implement the agreed structural reforms to fulfil the conditionality and ensure funding from its partners," he said.

G7 finance ministers late on Friday vowed to "take all necessary actions to ensure the resilience of banking systems and financial markets". However, underlining the difficulties facing German authorities, a survey showed 53pc of Germans oppose further aid for Greece and would not save the country from default should it fail to fulfil loan criteria.

A Greek default may be the beginning of the end for the euro and the European Union. It will set a precedent that may then be mimicked by the rest of the Southern PIGS, none of which are in much better shape than Greece. The entire European banking system – both North and South – may be seen as underwater. There is a limit to how many patches the system can undergo.

We would argue that the Internet – and what we call the Internet Reformation – has been at least partially responsible for the problems Eurocrats are facing. They believed that a financial crisis would inevitably provide an impetus for a political EU that would take the place of the economic one. But it is not working out that way.

People don't like to be manipulated, and many may have discovered for themselves what the EU is actually all about, thanks at least in part to the Internet. The 21st Century is not like the 20th. Time will tell if the EU – and the euro – actually blow apart. But we think this ongoing crisis has been generated at least in part by what we call the Internet Reformation.

Conclusion: Just as in Martin Luther's time, people are discovering their world is not what it seemed to be. Large political and religious institutions began to shatter then and it could be that the same sort of evolution takes place today. People likely won't attribute it to the Internet, but we think a case can be made that history is repeating itself. Radical communication devices can change the world because they allow people access to information they didn't have before. We may be living through such an era. Too bad for elite machinations.




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  Posted by Bischoff on 09/13/11 04:30 PM

Posted by dotti on 09/13/11 07:19 AM
Ingo, I was so happy to see your comment!

I had stumbled through the post--realizing that I could not understand all of it, but sensing that there were some great "gems of wisdom" therein.

Now I need to go back and put in the effort to understand more of it.

Ingo, as always, thanks for your posts. I consider you to be one of the mainstays on the diet at the DB! YOu are appreciated.

Dotti,

You are simply too kind in offering your compliments... .., but I do appreciate them.

  Posted by Bischoff on 09/13/11 04:24 PM

Posted by WorkingClass on 09/13/11 11:18 AM
"That is how this government will be turned around, by 2/3 of States to file an application for a convention to propose the amendment to repeal the 17th Amendment."

I sincerely hope you are right. But I do not believe that the U.S. government will give up any of it's power just because the people and the constitution say it must.

I do not find any condescension in your remarks. I am aware of the call for a constitutional convention and I hope it succeeds. Unlike you, I am not optimistic that it will succeed.

I am neither a lawyer nor a scholar but I am aware of the controversy regarding the 10th Amendment and the Commerce Clause. I would welcome a constitutional convention for the opportunity it would provide to resolve that and other issues including the 16th and 17th Amendments. I just don't think the convention will happen and if it does the results may not be what you want them to be. And the product of such a convention could simply be ignored in lawless Washington.

Click to view link

You have a point in that the U.S. Congress has ignored the previous applications made by the States. What is much worse, is the fact that the main stream media totally ignored it.

Under the original U.S. Constitution, the Congress has no choice but to ascend to any reasonable application by the States. This situation with the U.S. Congress, and I am primarily talking here about the U.S. Senate, would never have occurred without the existence of the 17th Amendment.

The Congress in essence is telling the individual States, "you might have created a federal republic with a Constitution which places the States in control of the U.S. Senate, but when you ratified the 17th Amendment, you gave up your power, and we in the Congress will not let you have it back."

The reason the founders included the avenue of the States applying to the Congress for an Article V convention was to keep things under the umbrella of the original constitution. An Article V convention is for a very limited purpose, namely that of proposing and/or ratifying a specific amendment or amendments. It is not there to revamp the entire U.S. Constitution.

However, the attitude of the politicians in today's U.S. Congress leaves the states no choice but to call for a second constitutional convention, and most people do not want that. Neither do I.

The solution is to press every candidate for U.S. Senator to commit to vote for acceptance of an application by the States for an Article V convention. This is going to be a gigantic battle, because U.S. Senators are owned by special interests who propagandize the masses within the states to have their stooges elected.

The founding fathers never wanted an electorate larger than the number of voters in a congressional district to vote in a simple majority election for federal office. The 17th Amendment killed their intend. The founders knew that "masses" make decisions on emotionally based retoric, not on reasonable consideration.

Unless the populus understands that the ratification of the 17th Amendment stripped states of their voice and power in the federal government, nothing is going to change.

The citing of the 10th Amendment to limit federal power scares no federal politician, whatsoever. The U.S. Supreme Court has decided repeatedly that the 10th Amendment is declarative, and that it does not compel.

What is needed is a widespread understanding of the detrimental effects of the 17th Amendment. Direct pressure must be placed on State politicians and the candidates for U.S. Senate to defy special interests and to approve an Article V convention.

To make that clear to the American people, the media has just laid down and played dead. There is just not enough guts to fight the fight, even in the conservative media. Tony Blankely of the Washington Times has brought it up, Glenn Beck has brought it up, others have brought it up, but it never goes anywhere. All that can be done is to keep hammering at reapealing the 17th Amendment.

It has to begin with stopping the talk of this unrealistic cessation solution. Federal politicians are not scared of cessation talk. However, they are deathly afraid of a widespread understanding for the need to repeal the 17th Amendment.

At this point, only widespread understanding of the effects of the 17th Amendment will give us a chance to rid ourselves of the heavy hand of the federal government, along with the clutches of the big bankers and real estate interests which control the U.S. Senate.

  Posted by WorkingClass on 09/13/11 11:18 AM

Posted by Bischoff on 09/12/11 11:12 PM
"I say this because I don't think anybody is going to want to remain the subject of a totalitarian Police State and because I think Washington will never give up it's dictatorial powers. Session is more doable by far than revolution. So I'm just reporting what I see in my Crystal Ball."

May I say that I find your crystal ball clouded. Politicians in the U.S. Senate, elected by the campaign contribution of special interests, would immediately lose power with the repeal of the 17th Amendment. Why talk about cecession... ??? I hope that you are not prefering cessation to the repeal of a constitutional amendment... ??? The 18th Amendment was repealed without cessation.

I will grant you that the proposal of an amendment, which is required to repeal the 17th Amendment, will never be initiated by the U.S. Congress. Until now, every amendment to the U.S. Constitution was first proposed by the U.S. Congress. However, in their wisdom, the founders wrote into Article V the procedure for the individual States to make application to the U.S. Congress to call a convention of state delegates for the purpose of proposing an amendment. That is how this government will be turned around, by 2/3 of States to file an application for a convention to propose the amendment to repeal the 17th Amendment.

The unrealistic idea of cecession is fostered by the power elite, because it is unrealistic. The elites who control the education establishment and the main stream media will not allow a widespread understanding of the effects of the 17th Amendment. Furthermore, the education establishment will withhold from you an education about the constitutional provision on how to repeal the 17th Amendment.

Thank heavens for the internet. The facts are all there, if one cares to search them out.

You seem to sign on to the claim that Lincoln and Appomattox are the cause of destruction of Federalism. Lincoln tried to prevent what you suggest, the creation of two or three new Republics which could be picked off by foreign powers, to then be pitted against each other. Your claim of Lincold being the culprit to kill Federalism is persuasive to me.

It was ratification in 1913 of the 17th Amendment, as well as the 16th Amendment, which ushered in the destruction of Federalism. It was the Progressive movement in the early 1900s, supported by the big money center banks, which was successful in pushing the proposal and ratification for both the 16th and 17th Amendments.

If the U.S. Constitution is a dead letter, it is because people make it such. If people are opposed to thinking and reasoning about our constitutional government, and they instead look for answers in slogans, the U.S. Constitution is a dead letter in deed.

Why not lobby and agitate State legislatures, State governors and State Attorney Generals to make application to the U.S. Congress for an Article V convention... ??? I suggest that a little time spent studying the constitutional convention of 1787, reading the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as well as the Federalist papers, will provide facts and an understanding which can be used as a basis on which to think and reason. Then, let's argue whether we need a new Republic.

I don't mean to be condescending, but a bit of thinking and reasoning based on facts must take place, before a plan for action is suggested.

"That is how this government will be turned around, by 2/3 of States to file an application for a convention to propose the amendment to repeal the 17th Amendment."

I sincerely hope you are right. But I do not believe that the U.S. government will give up any of it's power just because the people and the constitution say it must.

I do not find any condescension in your remarks. I am aware of the call for a constitutional convention and I hope it succeeds. Unlike you, I am not optimistic that it will succeed.

I am neither a lawyer nor a scholar but I am aware of the controversy regarding the 10th Amendment and the Commerce Clause. I would welcome a constitutional convention for the opportunity it would provide to resolve that and other issues including the 16th and 17th Amendments. I just don't think the convention will happen and if it does the results may not be what you want them to be. And the product of such a convention could simply be ignored in lawless Washington.

Click to view link

  Posted by dotti on 09/13/11 07:55 AM

Posted by speedygonzales on 09/13/11 12:09 AM
"It's no big deal. Just let Greece go. It was a mistake to shove 'em into the EU in the first place."

Yep. Show the world that showcase of elites is full of crap. As soon as Greece get out they are gonna be free from the New Soviet Union style The Council for Mutual Economic Assistance. Thats what European Union is.

Lately I read article how good German economy is. It was funny. Elite has 2 horses on the Continent: France since the French revolution and Anglo-French alliance. Just try to think who sent Napoleon to Russia and pressed him to sell Lousiana, and second is Germany. Germany is totaly under control by ocupying forces. These 2 horses, beside Swiss and Benelux, represent core of neocolonialism in Europe.

Lec look at statistics. Slovakia has productivity 60% of Denmark but only 17% income. Look closer. VW Touraeg and Porsche Cayene are both made in Bratislava, Slovakia. But Cayene is loaded on train before finalization and moved to Germany to get sticker Made in Germany.

In Czech republic there was great chocolate factory. After purchased by westerners in privatization it was dismounted and moved to Holland. From Holland they brought back old technology not making final product. So Czechs are now buying their famous Snickers,Mars like bars made in Holland.

Made in Holland by czech workers who support agging population of the west and pay governments obligations in retirement funds. There is also famous story about sugar production factory in Czech republic. It was dismantled to the ground and shipped somewhere else. German miracle is based on classic deindustrialization method now in progress in Eastern europe,, as we know it from colonial era India and China and Eastern Europeans follow factories to the west to support agging population obligations.

Another example is agriculture. While eastern european farmers get subsidies from EU only, westerners are getting from state as well. One can not beat this unfair competition by double subsidies.

There were couple cases in Eastern Europe when workers hit western enslaving management. Especially guys from Korea had been hit at Hyunday Slovakia plant.

EU, NATO and Euro are generally hated in Eastern Europe as well as IMF, WB and UN, beside EU. This hate showed up in antiradar movement in Czech republic. As is said. Internet did what Guttenberg press did but not.

Greece and PIIGS generally are on the same path. Greeks hate America for it's roll in 20th century and opression of Greeks. Greece, Italy,Spain and Portugal have one of the most hardworking people on the planet. Greeks worx over 2000 hours a year. Problem is that they are indenpendent.

All 4 countries has over 30% selfemployed workforce compare to 8% in USA. This is due tourism industry. There is nothing like hotel industry in USA or restaurants chain. This must be big needle in eye for elites. Indenpendent folx are not what elites wants.

American system is a model for rulling elites. Including employer depended health care system and government run, uncontroled, Social security. Greeks invest to their properties which makes business as tourist industry. Renting house, with small wineyard and restaurant is more than US government bonds. Believe me or not. And it is not casino style economy. So elites corupted politiciaans who created debt and this is rest of the story. Break this peole down.

Great article, as always, on Dailybell

Speedy, you have already received accolades from Ingo and the Elves, but I want to add mine as well.

Your post covers many things and provides information that I have not seen elsewhere--thank you for that.

I am not disagreeing with anything in your post, but I am seeking clarification.

The image of Greece that has been presented in the MSM is one of--well, I hate to use the word--laziness. We are told that they retire at an early age. The word "profligate" has been used of the Greek people.

That being said, I realize that this is probably part of the Power Elite's working through their wholly owned subsidiary, the MSM, with the intention of making the Greek people look deserving of whatever happens to them--their "just desserts" so to speak.

A quote from article linked below: "Germany's EU commissioner Günther Oettinger said Europe should send blue helmets to take control of Greek tax collection and liquidate state assets."

Click to view link

Is this a reference to some sort of military incursion? "Blue Helmets"?

In my heart--I have supported the struggle of the Greek people against the EU and the entire banking system because--as we know here at the DB--It was not the Greek people who created this problem of their own volition. They are the prey--entrapped with the complicity of their so-called leaders.

That having been said, I would like to post what my husband Peter was told by a Greek national some 20 years ago. He was told that Greeks work within the system until they are retirement age--somewhere in their 40's, I think--then they work outside the system--a black market. At this point, they are self-employed, but because they are out of the system, they pay no taxes. I was wondering if this is true and how it fits into the big picture in Greece.

My personal favorite from your post:

Speedy: "EU, NATO and Euro are generally hated in Eastern Europe as well as IMF, WB and UN, beside EU."

That alone would make me support any movement!

I am shocked that only 8% in USA are self-employed. I know that regulation--particularly IRS--makes self-employment in USA difficult. I did run my own business for about 10 years and the paperwork was sometimes overwhelming.

Historically, how does the 8% compare? It seems to me that self-employment would be part of the American dream. I know that many who have run small busineses are now being forced to bail out because the economy is so bad. Many have fought hard to keep their businesses alive, but are now throwing in the proverbial towel. Then, they have to try to find a job to support their families--not easy in this environment.

Well, Speedy, I didn't mean to go off on you! One thing led to another.

I plan to read through your post yet again to glean what I can from it.

Thanks and Godspeed!

  Posted by dotti on 09/13/11 07:19 AM

Posted by Bischoff on 09/13/11 02:16 AM
There is more insight in this comment than any Harvard professor would dare to utter.

Ingo, I was so happy to see your comment!

I had stumbled through the post--realizing that I could not understand all of it, but sensing that there were some great "gems of wisdom" therein.

Now I need to go back and put in the effort to understand more of it.

Ingo, as always, thanks for your posts. I consider you to be one of the mainstays on the diet at the DB! YOu are appreciated.

  Posted by Bischoff on 09/13/11 02:16 AM

Posted by speedygonzales on 09/13/11 12:09 AM
"It's no big deal. Just let Greece go. It was a mistake to shove 'em into the EU in the first place."

Yep. Show the world that showcase of elites is full of crap. As soon as Greece get out they are gonna be free from the New Soviet Union style The Council for Mutual Economic Assistance. Thats what European Union is.

Lately I read article how good German economy is. It was funny. Elite has 2 horses on the Continent: France since the French revolution and Anglo-French alliance. Just try to think who sent Napoleon to Russia and pressed him to sell Lousiana, and second is Germany. Germany is totaly under control by ocupying forces. These 2 horses, beside Swiss and Benelux, represent core of neocolonialism in Europe.

Lec look at statistics. Slovakia has productivity 60% of Denmark but only 17% income. Look closer. VW Touraeg and Porsche Cayene are both made in Bratislava, Slovakia. But Cayene is loaded on train before finalization and moved to Germany to get sticker Made in Germany.

In Czech republic there was great chocolate factory. After purchased by westerners in privatization it was dismounted and moved to Holland. From Holland they brought back old technology not making final product. So Czechs are now buying their famous Snickers,Mars like bars made in Holland.

Made in Holland by czech workers who support agging population of the west and pay governments obligations in retirement funds. There is also famous story about sugar production factory in Czech republic. It was dismantled to the ground and shipped somewhere else. German miracle is based on classic deindustrialization method now in progress in Eastern europe,, as we know it from colonial era India and China and Eastern Europeans follow factories to the west to support agging population obligations.

Another example is agriculture. While eastern european farmers get subsidies from EU only, westerners are getting from state as well. One can not beat this unfair competition by double subsidies.

There were couple cases in Eastern Europe when workers hit western enslaving management. Especially guys from Korea had been hit at Hyunday Slovakia plant.

EU, NATO and Euro are generally hated in Eastern Europe as well as IMF, WB and UN, beside EU. This hate showed up in antiradar movement in Czech republic. As is said. Internet did what Guttenberg press did but not.

Greece and PIIGS generally are on the same path. Greeks hate America for it's roll in 20th century and opression of Greeks. Greece, Italy,Spain and Portugal have one of the most hardworking people on the planet. Greeks worx over 2000 hours a year. Problem is that they are indenpendent.

All 4 countries has over 30% selfemployed workforce compare to 8% in USA. This is due tourism industry. There is nothing like hotel industry in USA or restaurants chain. This must be big needle in eye for elites. Indenpendent folx are not what elites wants.

American system is a model for rulling elites. Including employer depended health care system and government run, uncontroled, Social security. Greeks invest to their properties which makes business as tourist industry. Renting house, with small wineyard and restaurant is more than US government bonds. Believe me or not. And it is not casino style economy. So elites corupted politiciaans who created debt and this is rest of the story. Break this peole down.

Great article, as always, on Dailybell

There is more insight in this comment than any Harvard professor would dare to utter.

  Posted by speedygonzales on 09/13/11 12:09 AM

"It's no big deal. Just let Greece go. It was a mistake to shove 'em into the EU in the first place."

Yep. Show the world that showcase of elites is full of crap. As soon as Greece get out they are gonna be free from the New Soviet Union style The Council for Mutual Economic Assistance. Thats what European Union is.

Lately I read article how good German economy is. It was funny. Elite has 2 horses on the Continent: France since the French revolution and Anglo-French alliance. Just try to think who sent Napoleon to Russia and pressed him to sell Lousiana, and second is Germany. Germany is totaly under control by ocupying forces. These 2 horses, beside Swiss and Benelux, represent core of neocolonialism in Europe.

Lec look at statistics. Slovakia has productivity 60% of Denmark but only 17% income. Look closer. VW Touraeg and Porsche Cayene are both made in Bratislava, Slovakia. But Cayene is loaded on train before finalization and moved to Germany to get sticker Made in Germany.

In Czech republic there was great chocolate factory. After purchased by westerners in privatization it was dismounted and moved to Holland. From Holland they brought back old technology not making final product. So Czechs are now buying their famous Snickers,Mars like bars made in Holland.

Made in Holland by czech workers who support agging population of the west and pay governments obligations in retirement funds. There is also famous story about sugar production factory in Czech republic. It was dismantled to the ground and shipped somewhere else. German miracle is based on classic deindustrialization method now in progress in Eastern europe,, as we know it from colonial era India and China and Eastern Europeans follow factories to the west to support agging population obligations.

Another example is agriculture. While eastern european farmers get subsidies from EU only, westerners are getting from state as well. One can not beat this unfair competition by double subsidies.

There were couple cases in Eastern Europe when workers hit western enslaving management. Especially guys from Korea had been hit at Hyunday Slovakia plant.

EU, NATO and Euro are generally hated in Eastern Europe as well as IMF, WB and UN, beside EU. This hate showed up in antiradar movement in Czech republic. As is said. Internet did what Guttenberg press did but not.

Greece and PIIGS generally are on the same path. Greeks hate America for it's roll in 20th century and opression of Greeks. Greece, Italy,Spain and Portugal have one of the most hardworking people on the planet. Greeks worx over 2000 hours a year. Problem is that they are indenpendent.

All 4 countries has over 30% selfemployed workforce compare to 8% in USA. This is due tourism industry. There is nothing like hotel industry in USA or restaurants chain. This must be big needle in eye for elites. Indenpendent folx are not what elites wants.

American system is a model for rulling elites. Including employer depended health care system and government run, uncontroled, Social security. Greeks invest to their properties which makes business as tourist industry. Renting house, with small wineyard and restaurant is more than US government bonds. Believe me or not. And it is not casino style economy. So elites corupted politiciaans who created debt and this is rest of the story. Break this peole down.

Great article, as always, on Dailybell

Reply from The Daily Bell

Thanks for this interesting analysis, Speedy!

  Posted by Bischoff on 09/12/11 11:53 PM

Posted by dotti on 09/12/11 10:50 PM
I just read what I think is a very good article on the German/Greek drama.

Click to view link

Anybody got comments?

"If the German bloc left to create a "Thaler", the costs would be less. However, the rump euro would fall apart, with massive dislocations. "It would not be pretty."

Pretty or not, I think that is the leaning of the German population. They want the "gold standard", or at least the DM.

  Posted by Bischoff on 09/12/11 11:20 PM

Posted by Bischoff on 09/12/11 11:12 PM
"I say this because I don't think anybody is going to want to remain the subject of a totalitarian Police State and because I think Washington will never give up it's dictatorial powers. Session is more doable by far than revolution. So I'm just reporting what I see in my Crystal Ball."

May I say that I find your crystal ball clouded. Politicians in the U.S. Senate, elected by the campaign contribution of special interests, would immediately lose power with the repeal of the 17th Amendment. Why talk about cecession... ??? I hope that you are not prefering cessation to the repeal of a constitutional amendment... ??? The 18th Amendment was repealed without cessation.

I will grant you that the proposal of an amendment, which is required to repeal the 17th Amendment, will never be initiated by the U.S. Congress. Until now, every amendment to the U.S. Constitution was first proposed by the U.S. Congress. However, in their wisdom, the founders wrote into Article V the procedure for the individual States to make application to the U.S. Congress to call a convention of state delegates for the purpose of proposing an amendment. That is how this government will be turned around, by 2/3 of States to file an application for a convention to propose the amendment to repeal the 17th Amendment.

The unrealistic idea of cecession is fostered by the power elite, because it is unrealistic. The elites who control the education establishment and the main stream media will not allow a widespread understanding of the effects of the 17th Amendment. Furthermore, the education establishment will withhold from you an education about the constitutional provision on how to repeal the 17th Amendment.

Thank heavens for the internet. The facts are all there, if one cares to search them out.

You seem to sign on to the claim that Lincoln and Appomattox are the cause of destruction of Federalism. Lincoln tried to prevent what you suggest, the creation of two or three new Republics which could be picked off by foreign powers, to then be pitted against each other. Your claim of Lincold being the culprit to kill Federalism is persuasive to me.

It was ratification in 1913 of the 17th Amendment, as well as the 16th Amendment, which ushered in the destruction of Federalism. It was the Progressive movement in the early 1900s, supported by the big money center banks, which was successful in pushing the proposal and ratification for both the 16th and 17th Amendments.

If the U.S. Constitution is a dead letter, it is because people make it such. If people are opposed to thinking and reasoning about our constitutional government, and they instead look for answers in slogans, the U.S. Constitution is a dead letter in deed.

Why not lobby and agitate State legislatures, State governors and State Attorney Generals to make application to the U.S. Congress for an Article V convention... ??? I suggest that a little time spent studying the constitutional convention of 1787, reading the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as well as the Federalist papers, will provide facts and an understanding which can be used as a basis on which to think and reason. Then, let's argue whether we need a new Republic.

I don't mean to be condescending, but a bit of thinking and reasoning based on facts must take place, before a plan for action is suggested.

CORRECTION:

The sentence: "Your claim of Lincold being the culprit to kill Federalism is persuasive to me."

Should read: "Your claim of Lincold being the culprit to kill Federalism is NOT persuasive to me."

  Posted by Bischoff on 09/12/11 11:12 PM

Posted by WorkingClass on 09/12/11 09:14 PM
I am predicting that in post Imperial America there will be secession movements. I say this because I don't think anybody is going to want to remain the subject of a totalitarian Police State and because I think Washington will never give up it's dictatorial powers. Session is more doable by far than revolution. So I'm just reporting what I see in my Crystal Ball.

What once was our constitution is now a dead letter. I wish it wasn't so. I am supporting Ron Paul in the upcoming elections precisely because he intends to restore the constitution. But I am not optimistic regarding his chances of success.

Federalism died at Appomattox in my opinion and the constitution without federalism is already not the constitution. We need a new Republic. Failing that, two or three or several new Republics.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Whatever happens - I wish you well.

"I say this because I don't think anybody is going to want to remain the subject of a totalitarian Police State and because I think Washington will never give up it's dictatorial powers. Session is more doable by far than revolution. So I'm just reporting what I see in my Crystal Ball."

May I say that I find your crystal ball clouded. Politicians in the U.S. Senate, elected by the campaign contribution of special interests, would immediately lose power with the repeal of the 17th Amendment. Why talk about cecession... ??? I hope that you are not prefering cessation to the repeal of a constitutional amendment... ??? The 18th Amendment was repealed without cessation.

I will grant you that the proposal of an amendment, which is required to repeal the 17th Amendment, will never be initiated by the U.S. Congress. Until now, every amendment to the U.S. Constitution was first proposed by the U.S. Congress. However, in their wisdom, the founders wrote into Article V the procedure for the individual States to make application to the U.S. Congress to call a convention of state delegates for the purpose of proposing an amendment. That is how this government will be turned around, by 2/3 of States to file an application for a convention to propose the amendment to repeal the 17th Amendment.

The unrealistic idea of cecession is fostered by the power elite, because it is unrealistic. The elites who control the education establishment and the main stream media will not allow a widespread understanding of the effects of the 17th Amendment. Furthermore, the education establishment will withhold from you an education about the constitutional provision on how to repeal the 17th Amendment.

Thank heavens for the internet. The facts are all there, if one cares to search them out.

You seem to sign on to the claim that Lincoln and Appomattox are the cause of destruction of Federalism. Lincoln tried to prevent what you suggest, the creation of two or three new Republics which could be picked off by foreign powers, to then be pitted against each other. Your claim of Lincold being the culprit to kill Federalism is persuasive to me.

It was ratification in 1913 of the 17th Amendment, as well as the 16th Amendment, which ushered in the destruction of Federalism. It was the Progressive movement in the early 1900s, supported by the big money center banks, which was successful in pushing the proposal and ratification for both the 16th and 17th Amendments.

If the U.S. Constitution is a dead letter, it is because people make it such. If people are opposed to thinking and reasoning about our constitutional government, and they instead look for answers in slogans, the U.S. Constitution is a dead letter in deed.

Why not lobby and agitate State legislatures, State governors and State Attorney Generals to make application to the U.S. Congress for an Article V convention... ??? I suggest that a little time spent studying the constitutional convention of 1787, reading the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as well as the Federalist papers, will provide facts and an understanding which can be used as a basis on which to think and reason. Then, let's argue whether we need a new Republic.

I don't mean to be condescending, but a bit of thinking and reasoning based on facts must take place, before a plan for action is suggested.

  Posted by dotti on 09/12/11 10:50 PM

I just read what I think is a very good article on the German/Greek drama.

Click to view link

Anybody got comments?

  Posted by WorkingClass on 09/12/11 09:14 PM

Posted by Bischoff on 09/12/11 06:18 PM
That's just the trouble. No understanding of history. No idea how we arrived at this sad state of affairs.

I'll tell you how it happend. It happend when the sovereign States in 1913 abandoned their seat at the table of power in the federal government with the ratification of the 17th Amendment. That's how it happend.

Now, when we are facing the full fallout from the existence of the 17th Amendment, people can only think of "escaping the tyranny and taxing power of the government in Washington, DC" by ceceeding from the Union.

That's what cecession is, escape. Escape as an answer to curtail federal government power and tyranny, is insanity. Let me tell you, escape is not the answer. The answer is the restoration of the federal, constitutionl government intended for us by the founders with the writing of the original constitution of 1787. The States have to reclaim their seat at the table of power in Washington, DC by repealing this most unconstitutional, constitutional amendment.

If you study the constitutional convention of 1787, and you read the arguments between James Madison and James Wilson on one side, and Roger Sherman and Luther Martin on the other side, you will realize that Sherman's and Martin's arguments won out in the allocation of power within the legislature under the original constitution. The U.S. Senate was never intended to be elected by the people. It was the independent, sovereign state governments which selected their Senators under the original constitution.

All the troubles we face today, be it Fed central banking with its collapsing currency, destructive federal taxation, overpowering federal government intervention in state affairs, violation of private/personal property rights, among many others, these are the direct result of the ratification of the 16th and 17th Amendments.

So, the answer should be secession... ??? I don't think so. The answer is the repeal of the 16th and 17th Amendments, not cessation.

Of course, there is the other rub. Few understand the constitutional procedures on how to go about the repeal of a constitutional amendment, though these procedures are clearly stated in Article V of the U.S. Constitution.

However, I make no personal aspersions. I place the blame for the lack of knowing American history and the lack of understanding our constitutional system squarely on the education establishment. The huge amounts of monies spent on a public education which does not teach the U.S. Constitution are not only wasted, they are down right destructive to the development of good citizenship.

I am predicting that in post Imperial America there will be secession movements. I say this because I don't think anybody is going to want to remain the subject of a totalitarian Police State and because I think Washington will never give up it's dictatorial powers. Session is more doable by far than revolution. So I'm just reporting what I see in my Crystal Ball.

What once was our constitution is now a dead letter. I wish it wasn't so. I am supporting Ron Paul in the upcoming elections precisely because he intends to restore the constitution. But I am not optimistic regarding his chances of success.

Federalism died at Appomattox in my opinion and the constitution without federalism is already not the constitution. We need a new Republic. Failing that, two or three or several new Republics.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Whatever happens - I wish you well.

  Posted by Curious on 09/12/11 08:04 PM

We now have 2 very distinct groups in this world. There's the normal folk who still by and large hold each other to account for unethical behaviour, and then there's the politicians and those who control them. This group can lie straight down the lens and without consequence. It's sickening.

  Posted by rossbcan on 09/12/11 07:08 PM

Posted by TimurTheLame on 09/12/11 06:49 PM
@rossbcan
Good stuff. I suppose that would be the updated Edisonian edict.

Now, if you could categorize the inherent advantages that psychopaths have over their genuinely intelligent counterparts , give them the advantage of all financial , media and law enforcement tools, add the science of Bernays add a smattering of no concience, it starts looking like Tyson-Spinks.
That is why the internet reformation theme is difficult for me to find solace in.
Cheers-

"difficult for me to find solace in"

Take solace in the fact that psychopaths are also, by nature, predators, incapable of producing anything but chaos. When the seed corn is gone, all service "industries" such as law, financial, media will NEED to suck on the teat of the productive and will be forced to take their proper subservient roles to the productive, in accord with the necessary values of peace, civilization and productivity, according to "Mathematics of Rule", which I am sure you have read and understood.

Be also aware, this natural state with honest, productive values "in control" was achieved by our ancestors in a far deeper context of social / economic / moral ignorance than we have today.

  Posted by TimurTheLame on 09/12/11 06:49 PM

@rossbcan
Good stuff. I suppose that would be the updated Edisonian edict.

Now, if you could categorize the inherent advantages that psychopaths have over their genuinely intelligent counterparts , give them the advantage of all financial , media and law enforcement tools, add the science of Bernays add a smattering of no concience, it starts looking like Tyson-Spinks.
That is why the internet reformation theme is difficult for me to find solace in.
Cheers-

  Posted by Bischoff on 09/12/11 06:18 PM

Posted by WorkingClass on 09/12/11 11:21 AM
People have forgotten that the United States was once a union of sovereign States. With the collapse of Western Capitalism will come a great decentralization of political power. There will be secession movements manifesting the desire of States and groups of States to escape the tyranny and taxing power of Washington.

On the other side of "default" Greece will begin to recover. Default equates to defeat and death to the banksters. Bring it on!

That's just the trouble. No understanding of history. No idea how we arrived at this sad state of affairs.

I'll tell you how it happend. It happend when the sovereign States in 1913 abandoned their seat at the table of power in the federal government with the ratification of the 17th Amendment. That's how it happend.

Now, when we are facing the full fallout from the existence of the 17th Amendment, people can only think of "escaping the tyranny and taxing power of the government in Washington, DC" by ceceeding from the Union.

That's what cecession is, escape. Escape as an answer to curtail federal government power and tyranny, is insanity. Let me tell you, escape is not the answer. The answer is the restoration of the federal, constitutionl government intended for us by the founders with the writing of the original constitution of 1787. The States have to reclaim their seat at the table of power in Washington, DC by repealing this most unconstitutional, constitutional amendment.

If you study the constitutional convention of 1787, and you read the arguments between James Madison and James Wilson on one side, and Roger Sherman and Luther Martin on the other side, you will realize that Sherman's and Martin's arguments won out in the allocation of power within the legislature under the original constitution. The U.S. Senate was never intended to be elected by the people. It was the independent, sovereign state governments which selected their Senators under the original constitution.

All the troubles we face today, be it Fed central banking with its collapsing currency, destructive federal taxation, overpowering federal government intervention in state affairs, violation of private/personal property rights, among many others, these are the direct result of the ratification of the 16th and 17th Amendments.

So, the answer should be secession... ??? I don't think so. The answer is the repeal of the 16th and 17th Amendments, not cessation.

Of course, there is the other rub. Few understand the constitutional procedures on how to go about the repeal of a constitutional amendment, though these procedures are clearly stated in Article V of the U.S. Constitution.

However, I make no personal aspersions. I place the blame for the lack of knowing American history and the lack of understanding our constitutional system squarely on the education establishment. The huge amounts of monies spent on a public education which does not teach the U.S. Constitution are not only wasted, they are down right destructive to the development of good citizenship.

  Posted by dotti on 09/12/11 06:07 PM

Posted by dotti on 09/12/11 06:05 PM
I went to the link--then to another and another.

Last one showed Larry Siverstein (Lessor of Bldg. 7) describing how he got a call from NYFD and authorized them to "pull" the building. That would explain why it seemed a planned demolition.

Now.

Were the explosives rigged in the midst of an out-of-control fire? Just how does that happen.

Was Mr. Silverstein just a bit too clever with his explanation--revealing that yes, the building was a planned demolition--not realizing that the story would not hold water?

This stuff really stinks. Seriously, I'm having trouble believing what I'm seeing.

Anybody got one of those blue pills?

Sorry. I should have re-read before posting.

Left out that NYFD said they had an out-of-control fire. He said there had already been so much loss of life... . That's when he told them just to pull the building. Of course, he had ample insurance.

  Posted by dotti on 09/12/11 06:05 PM

Posted by ksbrunn on 09/12/11 01:45 PM
Maybe the "911 religious thingy" is the zipper on the soft PE underbelly, which, if pulled, would cause all the stuffing to spill out. Retired Senator Gravel seems to think so, hence his campaign for getting state-by-state ballot initiatives in the 2012 presidential elections for an independent citizens' investigation of 911. You can Google it to learn more.

I went to the link--then to another and another.

Last one showed Larry Siverstein (Lessor of Bldg. 7) describing how he got a call from NYFD and authorized them to "pull" the building. That would explain why it seemed a planned demolition.

Now.

Were the explosives rigged in the midst of an out-of-control fire? Just how does that happen.

Was Mr. Silverstein just a bit too clever with his explanation--revealing that yes, the building was a planned demolition--not realizing that the story would not hold water?

This stuff really stinks. Seriously, I'm having trouble believing what I'm seeing.

Anybody got one of those blue pills?

  Posted by dotti on 09/12/11 06:00 PM

Posted by rossbcan on 09/12/11 05:23 PM
My Greek retort: Over our dead bodies. Follow the money and take it out of the assets / hides of the perps. We will even help.

Gee. I'm beginning to cheer the Greeks! How bizarre is that!?!

  Posted by rossbcan on 09/12/11 05:23 PM

Posted by dotti on 09/12/11 05:20 PM
Wait just a minute!

War on Greece to take over their assets in payment for their debts.

My retort: Are_you_kidding me?

My Greek retort: Over our dead bodies. Follow the money and take it out of the assets / hides of the perps. We will even help.

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