Shalom,

One of the most important questions in TORAH is, "Was Moshe schizophrenic & hearing voices in his head or was YHWH really talking to him?

If Moshe WAS schizophrenic then the whole Chosen People & Promised Land thing is dead in the water & the Arabs have as much right to the land as anyone else.

If YHWH was REALLY talking to Moshe, then He was the FIRST anti-Semite!

Exodus 32:7-10

7 At the same time, the LORD said to Moses, 'Go down from this mountain. Your people, the people you brought out of the land of Egypt, have committed a terrible sin. 8 They have very quickly turned away from what I commanded them to do. They made a calf from melted gold for themselves. They are worshiping that calf and making HUMAN sacrifices to it. The people have said, 'Israel, these are the gods that led you out of Egypt.'
9 The LORD said to Moses, 'I have seen these people, and I know that they are very stubborn. They will always turn against me. 10 So now let me DESTROY THEM in anger. Then I will make a great nation from you.'

Hi Ingo,

Did you watch that almost 2 hour video on amanfromMars' site, yet? It helped me tremendously. We should talk about it after you have seen it.

Click to view link

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just got moderated on a reply to Bill Ross, which is quite a bummer, but understandable, since I was paraphrasing a Frank Zappa tune.

OMG, after all these years I just got the meaning of what Mister Bufu means. I'm sooo slow on the uptake, sometimes.

Oh. I was just wondering, as it was so ambiguous.

Everyone knows gravity exists, Bill . . . 9.8 m/s/s. The trick is to make it go away.

These "elite induced delusions" emanate from the need for people to think others are going to "help them." Electing a King to rule over them is mistake number 1. It reminds me of an old bitchin' Zappa tune . . . like oh my God, it's like totally . . . hurt me, hurt me.

So really, Bill, try not to be like Mister Bufu and loosen up a little.

http://youtu.be/kHH81xGBpFQ

Hey, did you ever go to our site? You can barf out there.

Google: Agent Weebley Metaforia

Agent Weebley,

We'll probably get around to the point again, sooner or later... .

John,

Thanks for the tip... !!!

Hi John,

One of the pages I visited on this movement is called the New Left. This may be a deliberate association to reach out to that segment of society but in the end they aim to replace all the current structures which they deem to be top down and therefore enslaving and oppressive. The means they have chosen to do this, these protest and education events, looks to me a lot like a guided experiment.

The video from RT was interesting inasmuch as the young lady interviewed whose name I believe was Katie Davidson, stated that she was not a "spokesperson" for the movement since she could only speak for herself and not the entire movement. This tells me that there is, as I imagined there must be, an education process underway which i believe to be the main purpose of the present protests. I believe the originators at Adbusters must have tapped this young lady ahead of the protest launch since she is from LA and mentioned leaving there on the 16th. September and the protests launched on the 17th. This would then be true of many of the other "instrumentalists" which is a description for them I just made up since they eschew the word "leader".

Here is an excerpt from the Washington Post interview with Graeber dealing with how it all got started in July:

"Ezra Klein: So when did your involvement with these protests begin?

David Graeber: July 2nd. That was the first actual meeting. What happened was AdBusters put out this call for these protests. We had heard there was supposed to be a general assembly on July 2nd. So I just showed up. But it was a rally, not an assembly. Some Marxist groups had set up stages and megaphones and was making speeches and were planning a march. So we said we don't need to do this. We pulled a small group together and decided to have a real assembly.

So we wandered over to another part of the area and began a meeting and people kept migrating over. But we had a problem because we only had six weeks. AdBusters had already advertised the date to 80,000 people. And their date was a Saturday. You can't really shut down Wall Street on a Saturday. So we were working under some significant constraints. We assembled 80 or 100 people and formed working groups for outreach, process, so forth and so on. And we began meeting every week.

One thing that helped a lot was a smattering of people from Spain and Greece and Tunisia who had been doing this sort of thing more recently. They explained that the model that seemed to work was to take something that seemed to be public space, reclaim it, and build up an organization headquarters around that from which you can begin doing other things."

You will notice at this link Click to view link that this is a global revolution and has been envisaged this way from the beginning. Graeber was also involved in all the anti-globalisation protests also called the global justice movement Click to view link

This will give you a good idea of what this is all about. Anarchism is indeed what they are aiming at although with certain direct or participatory democracy structures. So far as property rights are concerned my guess is that they are probably in favour of community owned land and resources that may be freely exploited only by local individuals or community groups like tribes in perpetuity so long as they are actually working the land or the resource. This is what was practised in Libya until the recent NATO invasion and they seem to be manifesting many of the concepts outlined in the Green Book Click to view link

I must say I have been in favour of knowing who is actually organising these protests and what they are aiming at with them rather than worrying about what they are not doing. The fact that the Adbusters organisation apparently receives funds from the Tides Foundation leads me to think that once again the oligarchs are funding the opposition and therefore will be privy to all their plans. This then gives them an inside track on developing strategies to defeat them or as in the case of the Arab Spring to co-opt them for their own purposes.

As to whether Graeber is consciously collaborating with the oligarchs is an open question. Having read some of what he has written I would say he is an intellectual academic with a creative bent and a desire to exercise it. He is experimenting in real life to see if his theories and those he has embraced will lead to the changes he would like to see. He certainly knows who the enemy is even if he doesn't know their full identity or their provenance. In any event if his efforts and those of his co-workers bear fruit there will be wholesale change in the social structure that will sweep away the present world order from top to bottom including the oligarchs.

None of the organisations presently working with the movement and attempting to use it for their own purposes will continue to exist in Graeber's envisaged future society since they are all integral parts of the present order. That they realise this is doubtful since they probably believe that they are using the anarchists while the anarchists are confident of the converse. This may also be true of the oligarchs and Graeber may know this and believe as he says that history is on his side.

"So, Bill, who is boringly repetitive? Is that a dig? Or a Freudian slip?"

Me, until I manage to convince everyone that "gravity exists" and we cannot, despite our elite induced delusions act effectively in reality without acknowledging the basic facts of life that anchor us and limit the possibilities of all of our choices. Clear enuf?

Facts of Life: acknowledge and adapt to reality, or DIE:

Click to view link

Its not all about you, y'know. I do have other "victims":)

"If our prediction is correct, Solar Cycle 24 will have a peak sunspot number of 90, the lowest of any cycle since 1928 when Solar Cycle 16 peaked at 78" @ Click to view link with the latest opportunity of the storm at 40 percent (which is just ten points less than usual "maybe", being a _scientifical_ information makes elites real worry. Whatever power is occupying the WallS, the Producing Realms won't refuse Oil at $10-20 and a very sufficient drop in tags at Resources with a hope to further easing access to them. This is really a worldwide movement. Merely, all the buzz -seems-to-be- about the action of the Sun (-: Arabs and Russians might need their bailouts then, too... and who said that the Vikings can also live only on herring?

Missed it? Hmmm, maybe you were a little late, as I was checking often at the time. What a hoot that was that weekend!

Anyway, no matter . . . I checked back a lot at the time, and saw nothing. All I was going to ask you was for us to give a donation to you, so you could re-gift some of it back to us, but we ended up donating it to DB, but they didn't want to help us, so we just gave them the whole $70, but they didn't want it, I guess, so it is sitting there "unclaimed" and we cannot seem to get it back. Oh well, it's only $70, no biggie.

You're a smart guy . . . take a look at this little gem I just posted elsewhere.

Click to view link

You have a tremendous capacity for understanding, John Danforth, you fox. . . especially for reading between the lines.

I did answer your posts way back when, I guess you missed it.

But when something exceeds my capacity for understanding, I generally try to refrain from responding, lest I put my foot in my mouth. Again. I'm still trying to get rid of the taste from the last few hundred times.

Great detective work.

The author either deliberately or intentionally is using contradictory premises, though.

Anarchy cannot be 'leftist', because 'leftist' means authoritarianism. What they are describing as 'universal democracy' is really anarchism, or what they HOPE would evolve from anarchism. It's not a given that tearing down one system will give any faction the result they desire. It's not just nuclear weapons that alter the landscape, it's pistols, whips, and billy clubs, too. Asymmetric tactics can be applied against any social order, and when the looting starts, block-by-block ad hoc defensive groups either assume control of their neighborhoods or get overrun. At the most basic level, property rights have to be defended by a very real prospect of retaliatory force, regardless whether the people involved can express the idea coherently. None of that is very 'democratic'.

Too bad anarchism, like any of our utopian ideals, depends upon everyone being reasonable and agreeing on basic morality, without which thugs take over.

I wish I knew better than the author, but I don't. It's easier to criticize than invent, but I do see problems with his contradictory premises. What is missing from his analysis is property rights. And that is probably not accidental.

Oh, now I just saw it. Hi John Danforth! I had a funny feeling it was the Lazarus add-on, but I couldn't bring myself to mention the possible spelloid to Bill.

I need a new computer. Mine is missing keystrokes and shutting down all the time, all of a sudden. It has nothing to with the header from 4 feet in the air onto a driveway, I'm sure. Good thing it has a SSD . . . that really helped.

So [i]that's[/i] why I save so much time and money on not buying/using little apps . . . I never did see John Danforth's comment.

And I comment so often in so many places that I don't keep track of my comments, as I run into my "little prezzies" all the time. I just look for the Agent Weebley "W" which I hope is Wordpress shareware, otherwise I am going to be in big trouble one day.

I like to raise things like "Wordperfect 5" from the dead every now and again as a literary toolbit, as the black background and fire red/orange LED pixels burned holes in retinas all over the place back then . . . ah, the memories . . .

So, Bill, who is boringly repetitive? Is that a dig? Or a Freudian slip?

And "penetrating the impenetrable?" Nohing is impenetrable when you are a Little Neutrino, which I think all of us should aspire to be by the end of our lifetime.

Ingo,

Use Firefox and get the Lazarus add-on. Never lose you entry into a web page again!

"the slings and arrows of comments going into the ethernet,"

Wordperfect 5? OMG, thought was extinct, found only in museums.

gees, you guys just don't listen. Ages ago and repetively John Danforth reccommended Lazaeus Form Recovery, which is excellent. Never lose another post again and, have an archive of all comments you have ever made, anywhere, anytime. Useful for those of us who comment as part of their literay endeavors, or are boringly repetetive and don't like typing the same thing over and over, in hope of penetrating the impenetrable.

Click to view link

@DB "Great post. But are you SURE about this?"

I was just reflecting on the information from concernedforfreedoms' links to David Graebel and quoting parts that I found significant.

As noted previously, he was contacted in July by Adbusters who are "connected" and he appears to have been involved in some way with the Arab Spring. The other link I posted to Occupy Britain uses the Otpor fist in its header so that is another possible connection with the Arab Spring and previous "revolutions". Graebel also mentions the Arab Spring in an interview with the Washington Post and knew that they had already opened a dry cleaning business, as part of the prototypical construction of an alternate society, in Tahrir Square so his association must have been quite close.

It appears that he is the principal architect or at least an important intellectual force behind these protests and what is particularly evident is that the traditional "activists" such as the trade unions and Click to view link as well as other political personages, Alex Jones and the controlled media all appear to have been somewhat taken by surprise and so far their attempts to get involved to instil purpose or change the direction of the protests have not been very successful. This would seem to be a function of the design of the protests which is deliberately free of constraints. It looks very much like a life size experiment in social anthropology which may indeed be the point. Here is the portion of the interview with the Washington Post regarding the traditional "activists":

"EK: We're also beginning to see 'Occupy Wall Street' link up with with more traditional activist groups. Some members of the protest were speaking via videofeed at today's big confab of liberal groups in Washington. Click to view link and organized labor are planning a march in support of the occupiers for Wednesday. How does that change what is, for now, a very decentralized movement?

DG: It is organically happening but there are definite problems that occur. We found this back in the days of the globalization movement. Unions were very supportive and provided resources but they're very different organizations. The real difficulty is how to work with people who are top-down and have a funding base, as it means there are things they can say in public and things they can't, and groups where people can say whatever they want and the whole idea is to be decentralized. One problem I've already heard of is that people are coming in and changing the tenor of the general assemblies to speeches, and that's not really what it's supposed to be about. So you have to balance the aspect where you're trying to show what direct democracy could be like and the effort to link up with groups that have a form of organization we've rejected."

Given that the primarily young people involved are probably for the most part unaware of the antecedents of the movement the potential for unplanned departures exists but how these events will evolve or how they can be a catalyst for social change remains a mystery to me. They may simply be the first wave of a series of similar events and be used primarily to identify potential leaders and educate the uninformed on the attractions of anarchism and direct democracy.

There is a specific and precedent spiritual connection in all of this but I will leave that for another time since there are important developments afoot along that line. The new paradigm may be closer than we think. In that case no-one's concepts, ideas, theories or hypotheses are going to amount to very much in the light of the new reality. Perhaps some of you may be experiencing this dislocation at the moment.

Hi amanfromMars,

Is that the reason I can't post on my own site? I was wondering why I was cruising the net in my Aston Martin Rapide, like a Tramp with a Lucy.

Lucy is OK with me dabbling rather than investing 5 hours per day, it seems . . . I can't stop.

And your comment today . . . excellent, as usual. Are you going to post again in Metaforia? And take those keys to our site structure, will ya? I trust you to do the right thing with them if I get noticed by the wrong people, and anothr Agent Weebley has to take my place. The PayPal bank account keys are next.

Ingo should watch that Bill Still "Oz" video you posted here on your site.

Click to view link

Hi Ingo,

I too have suffered the slings and arrows of comments going into the ethernet, but, as a stop-gap measure, I have been known to paste the past post into Wordperfect 5, which is also a good spell-czech . . . or is it spell-slovak?

For my shorter comments, because of my dilsexia problem, I sacn my writing and on finding no visual euros, I "crtl-insert" everything I just wrote, then press "post."

About 7900 words? OMG, I try to keep things byte sized, as humans have a short attention span, so . . .

Sorry, I can't remember what my point was . . .

Upon scanning what I just wrote, it was probably the upcoming EFSF vote in Slovakia?

This seems to be David Graeber's aim if you can say that he has an aim:

"When the history is finally written, though, it's likely all of this tumult - beginning with the Arab Spring - will be remembered as the opening salvo in a wave of negotiations over the dissolution of the American Empire. Thirty years of relentless prioritising of propaganda over substance, and snuffing out anything that might look like a political basis for opposition, might make the prospects for the young protesters look bleak; and it's clear that the rich are determined to seize as large a share of the spoils as remain, tossing a whole generation of young people to the wolves in order to do so. But history is not on their side."

However from his article "The New Anarchists" this quote may indicate his ignorance of the theory of directed history and therefore the oblivious to the possibility that he may be being used by the financial oligarchy for their purposes as have been many theorists:

"In the late nineteenth century most people honestly believed that war between industrialized powers was becoming obsolete; colonial adventures were a constant, but a war between France and England, on French or English soil, seemed as unthinkable as it would today. By 1900, even the use of passports was considered an antiquated barbarism. The 'short twentieth century' was, by contrast, probably the most violent in human history, almost entirely preoccupied with either waging world wars or preparing for them. Hardly surprising, then, that anarchism quickly came to seem unrealistic, if the ultimate measure of political effectiveness became the ability to maintain huge mechanized killing machines. This is one thing that anarchists, by definition, can never be very good at. Neither is it surprising that Marxist parties -who have been only too good at it-seemed eminently practical and realistic in comparison. Whereas the moment the Cold War ended, and war between industrialized powers once again seemed unthinkable, anarchism reappeared just where it had been at the end of the nineteenth century, as an international movement at the very centre of the revolutionary left.

If this is right, it becomes clearer what the ultimate stakes of the current 'anti-terrorist' mobilization are. In the short run, things do look very frightening. Governments who were desperately scrambling for some way to convince the public we were terrorists even before September 11 now feel they've been given carteblanche; there is little doubt that a lot of good people are about to suffer terrible repression. But in the long run, a return to twentieth-century levels of violence is simply impossible. The September 11 attacks were clearly something of a fluke (the first wildly ambitious terrorist scheme in history that actually worked); the spread of nuclear weapons is ensuring that larger and larger portions of the globe will be for all practical purposes off-limits to conventional warfare. And if war is the health of the state, the prospects for anarchist-style organizing can only be improving.

A constant complaint about the globalization movement in the progressive press is that, while tactically brilliant, it lacks any central theme or coherent ideology. (This seems to be the left equivalent of the corporate media's claims that we are a bunch of dumb kids touting a bundle of completely unrelated causes-free Mumia, dump the debt, save the old-growth forests.)

Another line of attack is that the movement is plagued by a generic opposition to all forms of structure or organization. It's distressing that, two years after Seattle, I should have to write this, but someone obviously should: in North America especially, this is a movement about reinventing democracy. It is not opposed to organization. It is about creating new forms of organization. It is not lacking in ideology. Those new forms of organization are its ideology. It is about creating and enacting horizontal networks instead of top-down structures like states, parties or corporations; networks based on principles of decentralized, non-hierarchical consensus democracy.

Ultimately, it aspires to be much more than that, because ultimately it aspires to reinvent daily life as whole. But unlike many other forms of radicalism, it has first organized itself in the political sphere-mainly because this was a territory that the powers that be (who have shifted all their heavy artillery into the economic) have largely abandoned.

Over the past decade, activists in North America have been putting enormous creative energy into reinventing their groups' own internal processes, to create viable models of what functioning direct democracy could actually look like. In this we've drawn particularly, as I've noted, on examples from outside the Western tradition, which almost invariably rely on some process of consensus finding, rather than majority vote.

The result is a rich and growing panoply of organizational instruments-spokescouncils, affinity groups, facilitation tools, break-outs, fishbowls, blocking concerns, vibe-watchers and so on-all aimed at creating forms of democratic process that allow initiatives to rise from below and attain maximum effective solidarity, without stifling dissenting voices, creating leadership positions or compelling anyone to do anything which they have not freely agreed to do."

It is interesting to me that he appears to espousing new forms of direct democracy and admits to having inspiration for these from "outside western traditions". The most obvious example of this would surely be the Green Book of Muammar Gadhafi

Click to view link

which he seems to have borrowed from quite extensively. In that case the present attacks on Libya may have an even deeper significance given that it was the only country actually practising and developing the very forms of direct democracy that Graeber is talking about.

Reply from The Daily Bell

"(the first wildly ambitious terrorist scheme in history that actually worked)"

Great post. But are you SURE about this?

Another Banking Fraud emerges this time at Bank of New York Mellon. Worth listening to this interview at King World News:

Click to view link