News & Analysis
Washington Post: Occupy Wall Street Is Controlled Opposition, Maybe LaRouchite?
What is Occupy Wall Street? The history of leaderless movements ... Occupy Wall Street has arrived. Facebook is all-aflutter, and Twitter is all-atweeter, as news of "occupations" and clashes with the powers-that-be spread like wildfire around the country. Now entering its fourth week, the Wall Street occupation has become a national phenomenon. – Washington Post
Dominant Social Theme: Occupy Wall Street is a movement in line with Woman's Liberation and Gay Rights!
Free-Market Analysis: The Washington Post is often an editorial pivot point for US intelligence, revealing the aggregate thinking of the American Intel establishment. In the case of this article, it would appear that the alternative media's focus on Occupy Wall Street is taking its toll. Already, throughout the alternative media there is quite extensive exposure of what may really be going on with Occupy Wall Street.
Our article will also point out, below, that what increasingly seems to be a controlled movement is in a sense a LaRouchite one. That's because the economic analyst Lyndon LaRouche is excellent at analyzing what is wrong with the West from a free-market perspective, but his solutions are all statist ones. He is a big proponent of FDR, for instance. See more on this parallelism at the conclusion of this article. But back to the Post.
Are those behind the movement panicking? The Post, at least, evidently sees a need to justify Occupy Wall Street's existence and in order to do so has provided a lineage of "leaderless" movements. Of course, from our point of view Occupy Wall Street is NOT leaderless. It is likely a controlled affair generated by the powers-that-be in order to create an outlet for frustrations over the economy and a manageable movement that can be useful in agitating for the new world order that the globalists seek.
What's the alternative media's verdict? Occupy Wall Street has been fomented with organizational elements of the US State Department and its AYM arm, abetted no doubt by the FBI, CIA and other Intel organizations. Funding nominally is being provided via Adbusters magazine, which gets its funding through Soros-managed entities among others and its direct democracy approach from pseudo anarchist David Graeber.
In another incarnation, the movement goes back even farther ... to Anonymous and David DeGraw and AmpedStatus – groups and individuals that were agitating for Wall Street demos as early as March of last year. We know little of the real agendas of either one. DeGraw's AmpedStatus newsite is certainly vociferous but not necessarily libertarian, not even "anarchist" in mainstream terminology.
Ultimately, the movement, mayl refract numerous memes set up by the power elite in its pursuit of global governance. It is apparently designed as a kind of Trojan Horse to get as many young Western adults as possible involved with it. This sheds illumination on the overseas "youth movements" as well, which provide a precedent for Occupy Wall Street, which in its planned expansion may be constitute a final surge toward a one-world state.
This cannot be the last word, however. The elites will drive home their narrative via the mainstream media and if anyone questions the craziness of a "leaderless" worldwide movement, the Washington Post is there with its rebuttal. Here's some more from the article:
What is Occupy Wall Street? ... The movement has spawned hundreds of Occupy locales in a national Occupy Together network. And now there is talk of going global: Occupy the World. Inquiring minds want to know: Who are these people? What exactly are they demanding? Who is leading this thing? On these issues, the movement has been clear: This is a leaderless movement without an official set of demands.
There are no projected outcomes, no bottom lines and no talking heads. In the Occupy movement, we are all leaders. This is not just a charming mess. We are all leaders represents a real praxis, and it has a real history. In the 1960s and 70s, feminists convened consciousness-raising meetings aimed at politicizing the various forms of women's oppression that were occurring in private. Women in the ranks were tired of being excluded from the inner circles of leadership where the issues and demands were being decided.
Consciousness-raising was also the heart and soul of gay rights activism. The process of sharing coming-out stories in a free environment helped others liberate themselves from the closet of ill repute. Again, these stories were told in a non-coercive, leaderless environment that empowered gay men and women to fight for their rights and leave behind a debased life of sexual secrecy.
The Post is ready to celebrate both these movements, which had enormous impacts on American life. "Gay rights liberated our sexuality, and feminism fundamentally changed the way we relate to each other as men and women. All this, without a centralized leadership."
Of course, from our humble point of view nothing could be further from the truth. Both movements seem to have been sponsored by elements of the power elite. The idea has always been one of "divide and conquer" via discovering marginalized elements of society that can be turned into cultural and sociopolitical conflicts.
When it comes both to feminism and gay liberation, the idea is that the State itself has taken a leading role in lifting oppression. Nothing could be further from the truth. Women and people with homosexual preferences have lived peacefully in numerous cultures without necessarily feeling oppressed or marginalized.
The idea is that one works at least to some degree within the constraints of culture and conceals one's private self – or reveals it only in the appropriate context and with appropriate others. DB published a previous article on the subject entitled "Mary Daly Passes Away;" it was posted Tuesday, January 12, 2010.
The article seeks to make a case for the evolution of anarchism as methodology of positive change. This is weird because previously the Anglosphere elites have always used anarchism within a negative context. But not now. Here's some more from the Post:
Alter-globalization networks created a veritable movement of movements ... In the United States, anarchist-inspired spokescouncils convened hundreds of these groups to organize protest actions, conferences and community work. At the meetings, each group would position a single member upfront, in the inner circle, while the rest sat behind, like a human wheel with spokes. There were no leaders with long-standing assignments because every participant was, in essence, a leader ...
Conclusion: The Occupy Wall Street movement seems anything but leaderless. However, the Washington Post inadvertently provides us with yet more clues that the movement IS some sort of controlled opposition with its defensiveness. The editors go to great lengths to place Occupy Wall Street within the larger context of leaderless movements. Of course the movements they use as examples are evidently and obviously false flags in our opinion! They are using previous promotions to justify and rationalize a current one. There is plenty of evidence that both women's lib and gay liberation were at least in part supported by the power elite in its ongoing quest to disturb and discomfit private society. Out of chaos ... order. And globalism.
Editor's Note: Is Occupy Wall Street a LaRouchite Movement?
Who analyzes power elite memes better than almost anyone? And then suggests FDR’s failed policies are the solution?
We interviewed Lyndon LaRouche long ago and were struck then (as now) with his cogent analysis of the problems of money power and the statist nature of his solutions. He is perhaps the world's biggest fan of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, one of America's most intrusive and warlike presidents. Our interview is entitled, "Lyndon LaRouche Explains the Collapsing Western Economy and How the World Really Works" and appeared on June 20th 2010.
Lyndon LaRouche suggests all sorts of statist solutions to the problems he eloquently analyzes, as noted in his enthusiastic support of FDR. The Occupy Wall Street movement seems to be doing the same thing. Occupy Wall Street in a sense could be declared the “Return of Lyndon LaRouche" (to mainstream culture anyway).
As we pointed out yesterday, the elite-controlled Adbusters magazine is behind Occupy Wall Street, along with pseudo anarchist David Graeber. They are the ones that provided the pseudo anarchist “direct democracy” meme, lifted at least in part, it seems, from Muammar Gaddafi's little Green Book.
But the movement goes back farther than that, to Anonymous and David DeGraw and AmpedStatus – groups and individuals that were agitating for Wall Street demos as early as March of last year.
We’ve had questions about Anonymous in the past and we have little idea of exactly who David DeGraw is in terms of his real background, though we’ve mentioned him before. We do know the current Occupy Wall Street movement is modeled in part on the Arab Spring movements that are evidently and obviously controlled by the State Dept., CIA, AYM, etc. That doesn’t mean DeGraw is part of such controllers, of course.
But even allowing for a broad movement with numerous different ideologies, the solutions being suggested by the Occupy Wall Street crowd all seem to focus on statist paradigms. Here’s DeGraw on government programs such as free healthcare that could “help” the average American.
This is not some far-fetched fantasy. These are all things that Franklin D. Roosevelt talked about doing in the 1940s, long before the explosion of wealth creation in our technologically advanced global economy. The money for all this is already there, stashed into the claws of the Economic Elite. The denial of wealth to the masses is the key to the Economic Elite’s power. Outside of outdated and obsolete economic models and theories — and incredibly short-sighted greed — there is no reason why all this money should be kept in the hands of a few, at the immense suffering and expense of the many.
We’ve also noted the emphasis on public central banking, what we call a Brownian solution (See other article, this issue: Alex Jones Mainstreamed But "Public" Central Banking Gets Too Much Attention.)
And then there is the issue of direct democracy. "George Washington" has an article over at ZeroHedge today endorsing direct democracy. He compares it favorably to Switzerland’s republican system. He mentions Gerald Celente as well and quotes him as follows:
For some years we’ve been seeing the promising stirrings of a global Renaissance; a “new order” that would reject the gross materialism, excessive consumerism and glorified militarism that has dominated contemporary western societies. But each initiative undertaken to retrofit and change the failing system has had its momentum blocked or sabotaged by the entrenched agents of “no change.”
We'll take credit for that meme. We've been writing about the Internet as a change-maker for nearly a decade, and have used the term Internet Reformation to describe it. Glad to have Celente on board. He also writes this:
I propose … of Direct Democracy – a potentially globe-changing movement that would replace today’s “representative democracy.” Positive change will not and cannot occur until power is taken away from the power obsessed ... In Switzerland, where this is practiced, it is called “Direct Democracy.” The people vote on major issues that affect them locally and globally, and the elected officials (whether they agree or not) perform their duties as “public servants,” carrying out the will of the people.
Gerald Celente is an astute analyst of the current scene and a courageous one. But, c'mon. Switzerland is actually a Republic! And it functions much the way the US once did. Is it possible the solutions that Occupy Wall Street demonstrators are looking for are to be found in constitutionalist elements of US founding documents – solutions that are free-market in nature and likely feature hard money, low taxes, little or no regulation, the absence of central banking and local control of local issues?
The Occupy Wall Street crowd in particular seems determined to impose statist solutions when the free market once served well, at least until the Civil War destroyed the US republic. The Occupy Wall Street movement with its emphasis on public central banks, regulations like Glass-Steagall and an emphasis on public solutions to private problems is headed in the wrong direction, in our humble view. And now the movement is going global.
Call it Lyndon LaRouche’s revenge?
Posted by Rod Farmer on 10/14/11 12:42 PM
The essence of "Occupy Wall Street" is physical human contact and freedom of expression. This will not help the "power elite", who value physical isolation as a means of subjugation.
Among the reasons that "the powers that be" have not moved to limit the internet is because it encourages physical isolation. They are not worried about your "internet Renaissance" because of "The River Ganges Effect".
The River Ganges, in India, is highly poluted, yet the people drink the water, presumably with no ill effect, because the toxins counteract each other. The internet is the Ganges.
The "power elite" must see "Occupy Wall Street" as a path to their goals; we to ours. But we are the past. Whatever consensus evolves here, for better or worse, will be the future. Let us pray.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Ha, very interesting point (not that we agree with it).
Posted by 4irw4y on 10/12/11 12:56 PM
Nearly all laws are damn well pretty. But there is a thick layer between "pretty" and end-user. A good lawyer.
The valid directives, at present, might very well be the two, as follows -
first is a possible compass discursion in combining intelligence into form as abilities for abstract thought, understanding, communication, reasoning, learning, planning, emotional intelligence and problem solving" re wiki, than its pure militarist habitual use (read - secret and hidden from the society and working, ideally, improperly because of its destructive and murderous nature, being programmed from within to keep its form by whatever it takes... please notice, a well-reasoned nature, for its passport holders);
second is turning intelligence from a closed, secluded, high-on-reefs society into a primary wealth-generation philosophic machine, with root r/o (hehe) privileges for every Guest. The massive of intelligent information ~suddenly appears to be the most valuable asset under the Sun. Hope someone don't need to explain the moves to kings. Men... Don't Go Pharaons II.
Posted by amanfromMars on 10/12/11 12:35 AM
"Interesting website. [Click to view link] I believe it may be a British website and it has just been thrown together recently because some of the links don't work." …. Posted by David_Robertson on 10/11/11 05:20 PM
Good Morning, Daily Bell Ringers,
There appears to be a "rush" of those/these new radical websites/organisations/shell fronts for spooky entrepreneurs, which one can fully expect to create more than just more chaos and confusion, David_Robertson, and all of them will be in direct competition with those traditional systems and old boy network type operations which delivered and phorm and run with the likes of established military and para-military intelligence services [MI5/6,CIA,FBI,FSB,AI/MIVB, Shin Bet, Mossad, etc. etc. etc. ]
Here are two more of them……
Click to view link
…. which is a nice slick little Italian job [PS. considering what they say they can do and which can be easily enough done, and most easily at the point of manufacture of devices too, it might be wise to not download any nice promotional video from their site …… :-) well, who needs the worry of it being another viral agent and trojan horse to steal all you virtually shared thoughts and digital actions] and
Click to view link
... .. whose spiel and supporters would have more credibility without the need for the donate [Please help support our work by donating today] button, surely. Anything any good at all at future intelligence work will never ever have any problem with access to as much money and slush funding as is needed and/or desired.
And it would be very naive to not imagine and accept that earlier successful spooky services did not/cannot morph into what is required for the future, quite some time ago, and would be fully able to create whatever havoc/change/reality programs their directors/producers/CEOs decide are a wheeze, old boy.
Quite whether they have though, is a matter of intelligence, and whether it is believed that they have the necessary future intelligence in personnel and systems, in store and in house ….. and that will invariably be one of those Unknown Knowns, hiding behind the Great Self-Serving CatchAll Firewall of National Security Letters and Official Secrets Acts and SCI/TS Need to Know clearances.
As much as things radically change, do some things which have radically changed, remain very much the same as ever they were?
I wonder how well that UK white elephant or white hat of a Cyber Security Operation Centre/Office of Cyber Security is coping with all of this novel ethereal activity? It has gone extremely quiet after milking/bilking half a billion for its chiefs to play with, although that could be them just going "dark" and stealthy in the field, although to be perfectly fair and honest, with so much more chaos and confusion everywhere, is it more likely that they have no idea what needs to be done and the funds are fronting something altogether less honourable, and maybe even downright criminal too, like creating unwinnable wars, which is really stupid and always back fires on one.
And nowadays, with all of this instant communications networking of questions to discover the truth concealed in the veil of lies which are spun to deceive and misdirect attention away from matters of real concern, are such explosive mishaps because of criminal missteps ever more likely to occur extremely quickly and instantly, …….. :-) with Virtual AI Bolts from the Blue delivering to All the Very Disturbing News and Exciting Alternate Views.
Posted by inibo on 10/12/11 12:30 AM
It does appear to be a grab bag of memes. The main one seeming to be people who are opposed to the existing monetary system are crazy as loons.
Posted by inibo on 10/11/11 11:29 PM
This is making the rounds lately. I'd be interested in DB's take on this.
Click to view link
Reply from The Daily Bell
Ugh ... Agh ... Oof. We shall follow up. Thanks!
Posted by jaywren on 10/11/11 11:25 PM
If I was there, I'd protest against the free trade agreements that led to low wages for Chinese workers and massive layoffs for American workers, also the loss of tax revenue that resulted.
I'd protest against the business of H1B visas, which allows in foreign workers to work at jobs such as computer technology, finance, accounting, banking, marketing, advertising, engineering, teaching, health care, lawyers, business managers and hospitality. The visa is good for 6 years. Spouses and children are welcome.
I'd protest against the H2B visa which allows foreigners to work seasonal jobs such as hotels, restaurants, construction, maintenance, landscaping, security, retail shops.
I'd protest against illegal immigration and the cost of their free medical, education, food stamps, court costs. If the illegals went home, the number of unemployed would drop and tax revenue would increase. I'd spread the revolution to Mexico. Force the rich there to pay their fare share.
I'd demand a living raise. Raise the minimum wage. That way, people wouldn't need to rely on food stamps and so on.
Instead of having the best government money can buy, I'd fight to get the government back into the hands of the people.
Reply from The Daily Bell
You'd protest quite a bit ...
Posted by Abu Aardvark on 10/11/11 08:33 PM
"we should all individually THINK":
... and "agree to disagree"
Posted by rossbcan on 10/11/11 07:49 PM
DB: "but his solutions are all statist ones"
There are many Machiavellian archetypes outside of the system or, covertly "of the system" seeking to profit by providing "pretexts to power".
In essence, this is a war of the "best" evil rationalizers backed by the residual dregs of MSM and controlled academia versus the best free thinkers resonating on the internet and, occasionally, intersecting with the real world of action / consequence.
Unfortunately, the dispute is still generally believed to be an issue of "who to believe" which resolves to "who to follow" and under unfettered democracy, "who to obey". I am in a completely different paradigm and consider the issue to be "we should all individually THINK":
Click to view link
... and "agree to disagree" in areas outside of common interest (collective survival) and form our own individual trade associations with whomever we can negotiate value for value trades, using whatever medium of exchange we jointly want. Want my labor? What are you offering? We are, after all, "sovereign individuals", should we choose to collectively defend our individual rights. No organized force can possibly stand against such a majority enforced (by individual actions) consensus.
Posted by Abu Aardvark on 10/11/11 06:38 PM
DB: "economic analyst Lyndon LaRouche is excellent at analyzing what is wrong with the West from a free-market perspective, but his solutions are all statist ones"
Correct. But, ahem, given Max' clout in the in the alternative media (compared to Lyndons) - I'd suggest "MaxKeiserite" instead of "LaRouchite" ...
Posted by Abu Aardvark on 10/11/11 06:16 PM
Excellent and uplifting post, memewatchers.
Posted by gamma ray on 10/11/11 06:10 PM
Note: The link provided in my comment was the general web address for Chossudovsky's Global Research website.
Find the specific link for his article "Manufacturing Dissent": the Anti-globalization Movement is Funded by the Corporate Elites here:
Click to view link
While being a great primer on how the PE co-opt and fund mostly "progressive" protest movements, Chossudovsky uses the term global capitalism rather than a more accurate one such a global fascism. No doubt, a similar process occurs for the funding of many "conservative" think tanks and political organizations with the goals of limiting their conversations and effectiveness.
Posted by David_Robertson on 10/11/11 05:40 PM
"Oh, c'mon, David. The answer is it's been controlled one way or another (at least partially) from day one, Mr. DeGraw's protestations (which may be sincere) notwithstanding."
In one way or another I agree with you. However this revolution has to happen controlled or not and I am sure the 99% in it are unaware of it being controlled by malevolent powers. At some point we have to set aside what we know and get taken in or, as G.K. Chesterton once said, we never get to see the inside of anything.
Posted by gamma ray on 10/11/11 05:29 PM
The mainstream media is long recognized for its role in manufacturing consent. In the last decade there has been a keener focus on the mechanisms for manufacturing dissent, a term coined by economist and geopolitical expert Professor Michel Chossoduvsky (Click to view link).
In the U.S, the co-opting and infiltration of protest groups was epitomized by the feds use of spies and agent provocateurs during the Vietnam era. No doubt, since the inception of this country, all groups with the potential to generate significant opposition or exposure to the power elite mechanisms of control have been subject to infiltration in one form or another.
What we are witnessing now, thanks to the internet, is how far TPTB must push their windows of manufactured dissent to such extreme limits that the limited hangout verges on the edge of becoming full exposure. The expansion of knowledge of how things really work is forcing the propagandists to walk a tightrope of disinformation.
Maybe Celente and G.W. are not too far off the mark, while the mainstream media keeps busy with their part in turning the OWS protests into a three-ringed circus event, the rest of us should focus our attention on an example of direct democracy now underway in California thanks to a grassroots effort to place an initiative on the California ballot requiring the labeling of GMO foods. Polls show that 85% of Californians support the initiative so it has a very good chance of passing.
Health advocates and concerned citizens have tried in vain to get the federal government and the media to take their concerns about the clear dangers of GMO foods seriously. With Monsanto executives at the helm of the FDA these concerns were ignored, another example of regulatory capture.
The California initiative has the beauty of not only educating and empowering the average Joe, it also offer a free market solution in that consumers can vote with their pocketbooks as to whether or not they want to purchase products containing GMO ingredients. The caveat here is that the power elite often use the courts to derail initiatives they don't like. The PE used that tactic in California when an initiative denying illegal aliens state funded benefits was approved by voters.
The bottom line is that if Americans want to have a say in how their society functions, then they need to change the way they invest and spend their money and be mindful of the ways we often function as enablers of the current top-down fiat paradigm.
Reply from The Daily Bell
"What we are witnessing now, thanks to the internet, is how far TPTB must push their windows of manufactured dissent to such extreme limits that the limited hangout verges on the edge of becoming full exposure."
Posted by David_Robertson on 10/11/11 05:25 PM
I just wanted to add that I accept the analysis of the problems given by David Korten but I believe he has missed the key role played by the predatory financial system centred on the IMF, BIS, Federal Reserve and World Bank. He probably cannot fathom such an evil existing in the world.
Posted by David_Robertson on 10/11/11 05:20 PM
Interesting website. I believe it may be a British website and it has just been thrown together recently because some of the links don't work. In any event one of the names that comes up as an influence on the group behind the website is an American David Korten. Here is a brief excerpt from Wikipedia:
"Korten says he became disenchanted with the official aid system and devoted his last five years in Asia to "working with leaders of Asian nongovernmental organizations on identifying the root causes of development failure in the region and building the capacity of civil society organizations to function as strategic catalysts of national- and global-level change".
He formed the view that the poverty, growing inequality, environmental devastation, and social disintegration he was observing in Asia was also being experienced in nearly every country in the world, including the United States and other "developed" countries. He also concluded that the United States was actively promoting-both at home and abroad-the very policies that were deepening the resulting global crisis.
He returned to the US in 1992 and has assisted in raising public consciousness of the political and institutional consequences of economic globalization and the expansion of corporate power at the expense of democracy, equity, and environmental protection.
Korten's 2006 book The Great Turning: From Empire to Earth Community argues that the development of empires about 5,000 years ago initiated unequal distribution of power and social benefits to a small portion of the population they controlled. He also argues that corporations are modern versions of empire, both being social organizations based on hierarchies, chauvinism, and domination through violence.
The rise of powerful advanced technology combined with the control of corporate as well as nation based empires is described as becoming increasingly destructive to communities and the environment. The world is shown as about to face a perfect storm of converging crises including climate change, peak oil, and a financial crisis caused by an unbalanced economy.
This will cause major changes to the current economic and social structure. These crises present an opportunity for significant changes that replace the paradigm of "Empire" with one of "Earth Community". Korten's "Earth Community" is based on sustainable, just, and caring communities which incorporate mutual responsibility and accountability." Click to view link
Inter alia he is a Unitarian Universalist
Click to view link
One of the links dealing with the possible futures at OTF is called Transforming Capitalism. It included this very interesting graphic animation from a Marxist perspective
Click to view link
This is by Martin Siesta and graphics by David Harvey
Astonishingly he appears to attribute the most recent failures inter alia to the theories of Hayek and Minsky!
In any event this website is just ONE group of academics involved in OWS. Again they appear to be Marxists. Where are the libertarians?
These are people from the existing civil society although Korten was disenchanted with the international aid scene in the 1980s and left it. However he is a member of the Club of Rome, the Rockefeller think tank. I cannot square the circle on that connection.
Click to view link
My conclusion is that if these are the kind of people who are influential in the long run then we are indeed looking at a transition involving a change of actors but no change of control. The academics themselves are not awake to the part they are playing. They are simply following the bouncing ball that has been provided for them.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Oh, c'mon, David. The answer is it's been controlled one way or another (at least partially) from day one, Mr. DeGraw's protestations (which may be sincere) nonwithstanding.
Posted by David_Robertson on 10/11/11 04:16 PM
Here are a couple of articles from David Degraw's AmpedStatus that speak to this question of "leaderlessness" and "co-option" by self interested parties. This is testimony from INSIDE OWS that I believe is important to hear.
First an article by David DeGraw himself on what a day in OWS is like: Click to view link's-liberty-park/
Second an article again by David DeGraw entitled "EXPOSED: David DeGraw Works For A Soros-CIA-Obama-Socialist Front Group That Is Secretly Controlling the #OWS 99% Movement": Click to view link
Third an article by a Working Group within the OWS on the subject of Co-Option entitled "We will not be Co-Opted": Click to view link
If nothing else this will tell us that we are dealing with intelligent informed people who are politically aware and awake. There are many groups represented and they are all different in their beliefs and ideologies, if they have one. I am still looking for some kind of report from a General Assembly. The Working Group Report is an example of the kind of work being done and there are I believe many working groups.
Nothing that is going on at OWS precludes anything else that one can do to further the collapse of the present system which is what this is all about. Simultaneously it is important to have some idea about what will emerge in its place and this is where the OWS is focused I believe.
They are "Occupying" in both the spatial sense and also in the working, creating sense. They are not really interested in demanding that the government do anything because they know that the government is bought and paid for by the very powers they are trying to get rid off and replace. So for example, they know that if they demand a 1% financial transactions tax as Webster Tarpley is suggesting the money will end up in the hands of politicians who are controlled by Wall Street so it is a pointless exercise. They believe the old system is dead and working with it is working with a corpse... really unproductive.
I believe as time goes on it will become clear to the financial oligarchs who control the old system that this movement is growing to the point of taking over what they see as their world. This is when it may become quite ugly. Alternately they may wish to collapse the old system and have in mind something more to the liking of the already globally minded revolutionaries. By that time they should have a pretty good idea of what the people want.
They are masters of deception and could well believe they will be able to pull another bunny out of their bonnet to the delight of the audience. To imagine they are not taking notes to this end would be naive. That is even assuming they had a hand in this movement getting started. However it is impossible in my opinion that they have control of every detail. They appear to be satisfied to control the gates. If they lose control of the gates then they will be defeated.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Posted by rossbcan on 10/11/11 03:39 PM
"do you think that the choices our society makes will lead to a more free society or one that more resembles Germany under the National Socialist Party"
It depends on whether the internet is able to counter basic elite memes such as "might is right" and, those who disobey what the "man on the bench" opines and decrees are criminals. It comes down to trust / subservience to authority or, believing "your own lying eyes", with a dash of courage.
Whatever happens, if it is driven by majority choice (as opposed to a minority finger on the nuke button or blindly being stampeded by minority provoked events such as 9/11), it will be in favor of what people PERCEIVE to be in their individual survival interests. Objectively this is:
"Tolerate none to be predator, nor prey"
Will the lies and state false flag events / provocations end or mitigate enough for people to get their bearings? Dunno. Currently, only the very agile can keep up.
Do know that deepening economic collapse is freeing up time and energy (life) and resources for those inclined to think and then, act.
Nothing like a good survival threat to focus your mind. And, those whom have become accustomed to providing "solutions" have, in actual fact, ZERO credibility.
Posted by David_Robertson on 10/11/11 03:13 PM
Posted by equipoised on 10/11/11 02:00 PM
Thank you Rossbcan.
Using the model for intelligent choice that you linked to, do you think that the choices our society makes will lead to a more free society or one that more resembles Germany under the National Socialist Party?
Which outcome are we going to get sane or insane?
Is the probability of one versus the other changing? How so?
Posted by rossbcan on 10/11/11 01:39 PM
"more or less optimistic that circumstances on the horizon will benefit the cause of liberty and freedom? "
If we get chaos, that is another way of stating "absence of control", which is a sort of mindless freedom. Both the sane and insane will be free to act and face their own consequences.
Since most people are fence sitters, waiting to see what "monkey see, monkey do" direction they should take, and reality and survival favors the sane, out of self interest, people should freely choose to follow the sane.
THINK about it:
Click to view link
In fact, under present control, the resources of the sane are stolen to pursue the endeavors of the insane and smite any sane individual / group who may dispute.
Chaos at least provides hope of a sane outcome. No hope on present course, apart from the potential of chaos.
And, mankind cannot be enslaved. In the long run, as a species, we will be either free, or extinct due to "unfitness to survive".