"OWS has a good deal of libertarian involvement, for instance. One of its avowed goals is to "end the Fed" and yet somehow that's not the message that is being projected. Instead, the non-leader/leaders concentrate on leftist anodynes and the mainstream media covers these solutions approvingly."

This is simply incorrect. Ending the Fed is not one of its avowed goals. Indeed, there is no shortage of Ron Paul supporters attending these protests and getting this message out, but it is soundly rejected by most OWS protestors.

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Reply from The Daily Bell

This is fascinating. Notice EconomicsMonkey still has not explained how central banks print the volume of money they do. In other words, how much is enough and how much is too much? He/She will never answer that question, either. It is not answerable. Only the free market can decide.

Here is an interesting tactical update from Adbusters at Click to view link that mentions something I alluded to in my feedback, the advancing of the structure of the movement:

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Here is an excerpt:

"Of the many questions swirling around #OCCUPY, the most challenging is how to gel into a global movement without sacrificing the decentralized, leaderless model. There is a widespread acknowledgment that there are challenges that can only be dealt with on a global scale, such as a climate change accord and overturning international casino capitalism, and that we must therefore forge a globally united people's movement. However, there is also a growing recognition that the general assembly model that has worked beautifully thus far may be fundamentally limited on a structural level.

A breakthrough came on Friday from the New York City General Assembly where the structure working group has proposed, and the general assembly has accepted, the adoption of a modified spokes council model that will work in conjunction with the general assembly. "

The mention of a "climate change accord" indicates a certain ideological blindness while the reference to "casino capitalism" contains perhaps the thought that capitalism per se may not be the problem. It is to be hoped that these presuppositions will be put to a "consensus" vote before they become the foundation of this movement. Otherwise the change people are seeking from it will be illusory, just more of the same.

Here is the proposal from the New York General Assembly for improving relationship building, communication and decision making amongst the various groups, of whatever nature, actively participating in OWS:

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I don't think they would ever believe it, no matter what proof was shown. In the modern world the only way to believe that socialism works is to not think. Do not think is the only consistant teaching of government schools. Many students learn only that, but they learn it very well. Not being able to see beyond your paradigm is almost universal but they have made it an artform. Conservatives are all simplistic barbarians and they are all sophisticated and inclusive. The better arguments thrown at this crowd make no sense at all. You can't pin them down. They are complextic.

How about the shock that they are funded/blessed by the very 1% the hate? It would certainly get my dander up to learn I had been duped.

Scripted? Seems today: "All the World's a Stage, and all the men and women merely players" per freemason William Shakespeare. The writers of the script have only changed the actors, not the script.

Most of the OWS crowd seems too unambitious for violence. A big enough shock would certainly get them moving though. I think the D B thoughts on a scripted Western/Middle East war are correct, except that it will be further east. Mullin says we are already at war with Pakistan. Karzai says he will back them against us. A U. S. war with Pakistan would be just too big a temptation for Iran to stay out. Huge population, rough country, nukes, large arsenals, Muslim extremeism and extremely determined people. That, is a don't change horses in midstream sized distraction. Would there be scripted riots and other violence to stop that? Of course there would. Even without any bloomin' mushroom clouds.

Thought the Daily Bell might enjoy this link...

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Well technically speaking it is not really correct to say 99%, without a referenda to back that up.

I do wholeheartedly agree that there is much bad manners and loss of population, optimisation and enjoyment with the solvable 'many vs few' problems.

It appears that we have two competing nascent revolutions in today's American culture: the TEA party and Occupy Wall Street. The progenitor of the TEA party is the American Revolution, wheras OWS is the spawn of the French Revolution.

OWS is being engineered (not much differently than the Jacobins did for its pattern predecessor) to a mob rule very reminiscent of Robspierre (sans the single strong leader), complete with "peoples' congress structures capable of manipulation in whatever direction the leader(s) want to take them. My read on the majority of those taking part in OWS is that they are fairly unsophisticated in their political outlook.

The years leading up to the violent overthrow of the French heirarchy were a heady time, with peace and love as major themes a la "Liberté, égalité, fraternité, but they soon degraded into several years of hell on earth. To be fair, they are still a mixed bag that will need a further shakeout if they are to become a more pure expression of their 18th century counterpart. OWS (again, like the French) is largely unarmed, so it would take huge mobs to have any lasting success if they degrade into violence. The dismantling of Paris and mob violence that followed was a much easier target for mob control than the sprawling 50-state nation that now faces them. I don't see this revolution being able to bring about the changes, through uncontrolled violence, that were accomplished in France.

The TEA party seems to be largely grass roots, populated by deeply principled and well-educated individuals, and is generally a libertarian-leaning movement, in the manner of the original American revolution. As with the orignial American colonies, the majority of this group is very well armed, but very averse to violence. Their numbers will grow, however, if violence is perpetrated upon them. We do live in interesting times.

An interesting editorial today in News with Views: EX-RADICAL: 'DEMONSTRATIONS COULD STOP PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION!' The author was an activist back in the day, who some how made it near the top of the hierarchy. He explains how these movements work.

"It dawned on me that some kind of psychological operations were being conducted to change the peace, love and rock'n'roll counter culture into some kind of violent Marxist Revolutionary force. I am watching the exact repeat of these early dynamics of psychological warfare being played out in the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations.' The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators are not going to remain in the place of being peaceful demonstrators. Very subtly they will be morphed into violent revolutionaries.

After all, this is the intended purpose, because once that is achieved, the full justification of martial law will be created and then, checkmate: a Marxist police state comes into power to manage the chaos."... "This Robin Hood terminology is being used once again, as the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators begin to be programmed to view themselves as Robin Hoods against the evil banks, even though it is the banks that are actually financing their movement from behind the scenes! In order for mind control to be effective, it is essential that the demonstrators perceive themselves as Robin Hoods, because the next level of programming will require violence on their part."

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We have certainly seen the violence ramping up in the last week. Oakland, Denver, San Francisco, New York... Videos are disturbing on multiple levels.

Someone compiled a list of 40 examples of OWS violence:
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Will he use the OWS violence to bring in martial law and retain the presidency indefinitely? Will he turn the U.S. over to the U.N.? God, I hope not.

Two banking families playing opposing ARGs toward same destination; one chaos ARG, one order ARG.

00 ArRrG me hearties!

Apart from the media characterisations mentioned in the article let's look at the themes being actually embraced at OWS:

1. "We are leaderless" or "We are all leaders". Everyone is recognised as being singularly important and is called upon to contribute to society in whatever way they can in keeping with their personal gifts and talents.

2. There is "No Central Nexus of Control". Everyone has a voice in the General Assembly, the Universal Convocation. This structure is designed to facilitate this rather unwieldy proposition but it may be that other structures will emerge to fulfil the same objective.

3. All decisions made must be authenticated at the GA by "Consensus" defined as 90% agreement. There are Working Groups that report to the GA on different subjects and their proposals must be voted on in order to be ratified and acted upon. There are some Working Groups that are not recognised by the GA and they have sometimes made public announcements that claim to have been ratified but have not been voted on.

4. There can be "No Demands" made of the present system of government. The present system is corrupt and ready to pass away. To make demands of it would simply validate its existence.

5. The only solution is to undermine the system by "Direct Action". The actions contemplated have been the closure of bank accounts at the big banks, the paying off of mortgages and credit cards and the transfer of deposits to local banks and credit unions. It is envisaged that if sufficient numbers of people do this then the big banks will fail.

6. The replacement of the system with a new system of "Direct Participatory Democracy" modelled along the lines of the Green Book by Moammar Qadhafi although credit for these ideas has not yet, so far as I have seen, been given to Qadhafi notwithstanding the fact that they are indeed based upon his philosophy. The General Assembly and Working Groups resemble the People's Conferences and Committees of the Green Book.

7.Perhaps one of the most important themes is that of "Unity. One of the declarations of the people taking part in OWS and its many offshoots is "The People United Can Never Be Defeated." At the present time the focus of the unity is the 1% which is opposed by the 99%. This will necessitate the breaking down of the present divisions in society that have been created by the Elites. The Walls that have been set up between the different groups and classes and between the people and their government must come down. This is one message communicated by the Occupation of WALL Street. One of the early signs said "Bring Down The Wall".

8. Finally, although there has been no official "Demand" made by the movement there has emerged an inchoate cry for some form of "Justice" so this could well be seen as the final theme. This is the most important theme I believe and is the active and positive manifestation of the "Unity" theme.

In making these themes a reality it is necessary to understand that the present system of political party representative democracy doesn't work. The two party system in the US is a fraud since both parties serve the corporate interests. This is recognised by the OWS movement and is a fundamental sine qua non of their perception of the present corrupt system. This means that it must be replaced and what is being worked out in these various occupations is what it is that will replace the present system.

While it is a theme of the movement to be "United", the "Union" must also have a clear direction that is more than mere opposition to the 1%. This may take the form of bringing those who have committed fraud to "Justice" or it may consist of impeaching the political leaders for high treason. On the other hand beyond the most immediate imperative of meting out "Justice" there is the equally important mandate to create a society that is in its very fibre a righteous one. All of this is contained in the cry for "Justice".

The people in the Occupy movement are not aware of it but they are in fact crying out, une cri du coeur, for the coming of the Kingdom of God which is "righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Spirit". In the Kingdom of God everyone is a leader since everyone is filled with the Spirit of God and acts and speaks out of that divine nature.

There is also no central nexus since God is everywhere and is everything to everyone in the Kingdom. Indeed all of the positive themes of the Occupy movement are fulfilled in the Kingdom of God wherein everyone is of One Mind i.e. "Consensus". There is therefore no need for man made structures to effect this "Unity" since it is a given, it is in the very warp and woof of the Kingdom.

Finally when the Kingdom comes fully into view the Old will indeed pass away and all things will be made New.

"the Next Big 'Net News Service"

... when consensus starts to converge, inundate the marks with a whole new deluge of false, extraneous information. Keep them on the false path that "truth" is a matter of democratic consensus and "how can EVERYBODY be wrong?". Well, the earth used to be flat, until "consensus" decreed otherwise, or, so "they" would have us believe.

Ain't gonna work. Too many people are rediscovering how to THINK:

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... out of sheer survival necessity.

OK I posted the pun again in proper order and voila!Maybe not the divine but trolls and gremlins here?Certainly not from my primitive(skills equipment) end of things.

Try again. the pun was Click to view link. that triggered the link.Oh well man attempts cleverness,God laughs.

To clear the record I did not post a click to view link on my post of 11:35.My pun was ( must be read in reverse) .gro ezoonSWO somehow triggered the link.

So predictable in fact as long as most of the the followers stay safely somnolent to the truth OWSnooze. org.will have little positive effect.Yawn.