The European debt crisis sounds the beginning of the death knell for the euro, says investment icon Jim Rogers. "The euro will probably break up in the next 15 to 20 years," he says. "We've had currency unions in history. They didn't survive, and this one won't survive either," he recently told CNBC. Greece suffers from a budget deficit that totals 12.7 percent of GDP, and public debt that is forecast to exceed 120 percent of GDP this year. So the European Union has pledged assistance. "If (the euro zone helps) the Greeks, that weakens the fundamentals of the euro," Rogers said. "As the next government comes to demand concessions, they weaken the currency from within. I would let Greece go bankrupt, because then everybody will say the euro is a serious currency." The British pound is in trouble too, though it's not in danger of disappearing like the euro, Rogers says. The United Kingdom's main problems are "gigantic debt and a huge trade deficit," he explained. – MoneyNews
Dominant Social Theme: Many troubles at once.
Free-Market Analysis: Jim Rogers, whom we have interviewed in the recent past (click here to read), now states he believes that the euro will go the way of the dodo bird – it will eventually become extinct. We never understood why countries would so easily give up their own currencies to begin with, because leaders were giving away a portion of the ability to control national destiny. But of late the rationale has become clear. The countries participating in the euro were basically arbitraging the great German industrial machine. Greece, Portugal, Spain, etc., used the euro's stability and low lending rates to go on a great spending spree. The restive nature of European socialism was soothed by gobs of money. Strikes became pretty much a thing of the past. Harmony reigned, as much as it ever could.
But nothing is free forever. Eventually those who were buying the bonds of EU countries became aware of the profligacy – and the amount of debt that some of these countries were incurring. Politicians had received a blank check, and were penciling in large sums to buy social peace. First to have its solvency questioned was Greece. But the problem was actually regional, and occurred over a period of years across the entire Southern part of Europe.
The split, interestingly enough, mirrors the religious orientation of Europe. The countries with the most difficulties are Catholic. The Protestant block of countries, the Scandinavian countries and Germany are apparently in better shape from the markets' point of view. It is these countries, especially Germany, that have a tradition of post-war socialism and have a middle class engaged in entrepreneurialism. The Southern European countries do not have such a tradition of small business, or not to the extent of their Northern neighbors.
Which brings us to France. The French have so far avoided being lumped into the profligate countries called "Pigs," but we wonder how long this can last. The recent French elections, which the socialists are winning, emphasized the French political and cultural affinity for statism –and state security. The French, like the rest of Southern Europe, do not have an industrial tradition as regards small business and the public sector is very large. If one were to peer under the presentable facade of French numbers, might one confront a situation that has a Greek-like flavor?
It is no coincidence that the French have come out in favor of an EMU solution to Greek's debt crisis. The French in our opinion are thinking about the French. Sooner or later, logic tells us, the French will need some sort of currency aid of their own. We would bet that public spending in France has been more generous since the advent of the euro, that the French political strata has in fact done just like the rest of Southern Europe – purchased labor peace using the stability and low rates of the euro.
The French are going to try to make the "stability" of the EU an issue in calling for eurozone countries to help Greece. But the obstacles to such help have become apparent. It is illegal for other European countries to come to the aid of Greece and in any case the only candidate for such aid is Germany, which has internal, constitutional structures that would prevent such aid. The creation of an European IMF, an EMF, is questionable as well and would likely include the rewriting of treaties. And the EU is having plenty of trouble getting additional treaties passed these days. Finally, the creation of an EMF is merely another way of getting Germany to shoulder most of the burden of such a bailout as after Greece would come Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc. The moral hazard only increases as the bailouts mount. Nonetheless, there is this in the New York Times, recently, indicating that a compromise could be reached:
Germany indicated on Tuesday that it might agree on an aid package for Greece financed in part by the countries of the euro zone — but only as a last resort and subject to tough conditions. In an apparent attempt to set the terms of the debate among European leaders, Berlin made it clear that before it acted to bail out Greece, the Athens government would have to exhaust its ability to borrow. Germany also said that any rescue would have to involve the International Monetary Fund. German and other European leaders will convene on Thursday in Brussels for a two-day summit meeting. France and Spain made a proposal on Tuesday for the leaders of the 16 countries that use the euro to meet before the main meeting to talk about how to resolve the Greek situation.
The use of the IMF remains strange to us as devaluation is the IMF's favored way of dealing with bankrupt countries, and Greece and the rest of the Pigs, being in the eurozone, cannot devalue, as we understand it. The final solution to the currency crisis, then is for Greece and the rest of the profligate southern European countries to tighten their collective belts, cut spending and pare their generous public sectors. But these countries, ones that do not have entrepreneurial cultures, have purchased civic peace through public spending.
Yes ...These countries have small, elite upper classes – similar to South America – and these elites have purchases immunity for their privileges by paying off their respective, restless electorates. The European model of concentrating power and wealth in a small elite while paying off the larger population through social programs turns out to be unsustainable – as we knew it was – even though it has been extended by the EU experiment. Now that, alternative, too, seems to be shutting down.
Conclusion: It seems obvious that Germany's leaders do not want to be responsible for causing a eurozone collapse. It seems equally obvious that there is not much sentiment in Germany for a bailout of the Greeks – given the additional moral hazard. If the IMF steps in and demands the kind of Draconian cuts – without devaluing – that it would take to stabilize the Greek situation, the social chaos in Greece now occurring might grow worse. The real solution would probably be for the Greeks to leave the euro and start over. If the Greeks somehow were able to offer a gold or silver-backed currency, that would alleviate much of the difficulties the country now seems to face. Just because this is a reasonable solution, does not mean it will be pursued.
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Posted by CP on 3/24/2010 6:04:27 AM
It appears that the US is headed in the same direction, unless it takes drastic measures to reverse the course it is on. Other countries will follow. Most have the same statist attitude. Adhering to the US Constitution could prevent much our demise, if only it was followed. Perhaps it is healthy, for the present generations, in our country, to undergo major instability. It will bring out the 'true" leadership from within. And then the cycle starts all over.
Posted by T. Lock on 3/24/2010 7:21:47 AM
Greece is a basket case, along with so many other European nations. Heavily socialised, with big Government and lots of corruption to add to the mix.
The main European heavyweights took on to much by creating an enlarged European union much too quickly, and whilst attractive for those in power, it weakens the whole structure, which is now rearing its ugly head and everyone is looking to Germany, the only real major in Europe to provide bailouts.
Once Greece is bailed, then Spain and the others will follow. The domino effect. Southern European countries have made no effort to clean up their act, reduce taxes and social costs and encourage entrepreneurship. Its all about spend, spend, spend with no clear direction.
Spain has an intolerable unemployment level, low wage structure, high social costs, increasing food and energy inflation and yet house prices are still in a massive bubble, with heavily indebted owners one step away from foreclosure. 3 million properties unsold, 2 million of which are new and vacant and yet prices remain stubbornly high and unaffordable by the majority.
Banks hold thousands of properties that have been repossessed, and they too maintain high price tags, which lacks genuine reason. Mortgages are mostly unavailable and purchase and sale costs are extreme (minimum 10 on purchase price, including 7 stamp duty and 6 on the sale). A moratorium on these taxes for say 12 months and a reduction of a further 40 on real house prices would probably go a long way to resolving Spain's property market, but it is doubtful the government will even attempt to consider this.Spain is in trouble along with many others, so Greece is no exception, just the catalyst that started the rot.
How they emerge from this catastrophe is yet to be determined, but having a monetary standard based upon gold and silver as you have mentioned on many occasions, would be a start, but getting those in power to consider and appreciate it is something else. In the meantime, it is best to protect oneself.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
Great analysis, thanks.
Posted by Boatman on 3/24/2010 7:38:14 AM
This is the US in 5 years.....obozocare just made it closer
Posted by DP on 3/24/2010 9:38:44 AM
As of December 2008, 30.7 of the total population of Germany was Catholic. Prior to unification Catholics comprised 45 of West Germany's population. Apparently some Catholics in Europe possess business acumen.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
We were pointing out that there are cultural differences between the north and the south of Europe, and these may include religion. Indeed, we may have expressed it clumsily and meant no offense.
Posted by Gilbert Morales on 3/24/2010 10:03:16 AM
Allowing certain countries to fail financially is not necessarily bad. The ensuing restructuring of financial systems will follow. This process is unavoidable.
Posted by Boatman on 3/24/2010 10:07:22 AM
i like jimbo, but 15 to 20 years?.....might even be 20 months....though more like 48 months...
Posted by FLR on 3/24/2010 11:11:53 AM
The Euro is not a bad idea within a fiat currency framework, although it was not a good idea for the weaker countries.
It allowed the Spanish housing bubble to form. But it should not have admitted countries like Greece, Spain and Portugal. The simple fact that Greece lied to gain entry should be enough for expulsion.
These countries could have linked their currency to the Euro; Denmark does this. But then they need to run fiscal and monetary policy to maintain the link.
Obviously it would have broken down by now and Greece could inflate its way to prosperity (?)
The only chance for preserving the Euro long term is to toe a hard line and boot these countries. I wonder how this is going to affect the CHF? Are the Swiss going to let the CHF appreciate against the EUR if the PIGS continue to put a drag on the EUR?
p.s. If one wants to follow the idiotic Keynesianism of the mainstream press then read the FT "guru" Martin Wolf every Wednesday. He compounds his idiotic analysis week after week.
Apparently if Germany and China did not export as much and had more profligate governments then we would be in Keynesian nirvana. If you extrapolate this analysis then we would attain eternal prosperity if every country had large budget deficits and maintained useful makework schemes like digging ditches and employing more people to fill them.
But watch out about allowing productive business to flourish that attracts demand from other countries.
Posted by Greeff on 3/24/2010 11:14:59 AM
The background pictures are so beautiful!
Please have a part of your website where:
1) we can see the entire picture.
2) identify the location.Thank you!
Reply from the Daily Bell:
It is coming.
Posted by Lance E. Schultz on 3/24/2010 11:28:49 AM
"Germany also said that any rescue would have to involve the International Monetary Fund."No surprise here. This has been the objective from the beginning. Greece is yet but the first domino in the chain. No amount of German fiscal will could put humpty dumpty back together again once the egg (Greece) is cracked.
Because as we all know too well, Athens is not alone in its obstinate profiligacy and clandestine currency swaps with the western Rothschild moneychangers to conceal the true nature of her Babylonian harlotry.
Multipy the cumulative real sovereign default risk of the PIIGS together and the Euro itself is wholly incapable of preventing its own collapse.
Thus enter the IMF, and Paul Harvey's 'The Rest of the Story' comes into view. Fiat global hegemony was conceived and designed purely and purposefully to bring us to this very precipice. To convince a rational reasoning mind of the inevitability of certain global sovereign debt default and thus financial system collapse without a New World Financial Order which the masses will soon clamor for with unyielding relentless fervor just like the prescription calls for.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
We think the Internet may make this consolidation more difficult.
Posted by Jones on 3/24/2010 11:29:13 AM
Political leaders, when faced with cleaning up their act, predicatbly turn to despotism to retain their power. This repression of the people eventually ends in collapse. In the interim war is used as a diversion to keep the masses divided and diverted. Look for more war, with Iran the next likely target of the Western powers.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
Yes, we have mentioned the drums of war beating - regarding Iran.
Posted by Hans Georg Lips on 3/24/2010 12:12:22 PM
Mr. Fillon declared last year "France est en faillite! France is bankrupt! If a head of a government admits openly that his country ist bankrupt then this country is bankrupt.
So why list France not member of the PIIGS-States? Ask me another.There are different measures for different countries.
France suffers more than any country from the huge number of"fonctionnaires". I heard that 75 of all young French would like to become "fonctionnaires".
When the leftist government introduced the 35 hour week, some "fonctionnaires" of the French Railways hat to work more hours, because some of them worked only 27 hours!
Therefore let's call them the "PIIFGSGB", incl. GB, a country that is near bankruptcy.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
Well put, Mr. Lips, thanks for the commentary.
Posted by Jones on 3/24/2010 12:13:00 PM
Here is some more writing on the subject of war as a political tactic..
Compliments from a Dutch reader for your good piece! Well, I guess we are now starting to see the inevitable trouble and consequenses that lay ahead from day one of the introduction of the Euro.
It is unbelievable that those in charge did not want to see this back then, although there have been plenty of warnings from opponents of the EMU. How on earth can you have a single currency without a single state/sovereignty? It won't work.
Personally I have always been against the Euro, also because you could count on the cultural differences between north and south (a.o a lack of fiscal discipline in the south) to cause trouble somewhere down the road, especially when the good times would come to an end, as they have clearly done now.
Now the north is basically being asked/expected to bail out the south. That is, not only Germany, but also Holland, Denmark and the rest will have to foot the bill. That would be very silly, if not practically impossible. These northern countries already have enough cutting to do in their own budgets, let alone bail out Greece, which will then be followed immediately by Portugal, Spain and the rest.
By the way, how does one think the Irish will feel, after all the brutal cutting they have been doing, without getting aid from the EU? I guess they will be outraged by such a bailout of the south.
So, I agree with mister Rogers: let Greece go bankrupt, and quit the Euro. That would give the rest of the piigs a clear signal that Europe means business. If Germany gives in to pressure from France etc. on this issue, the fences are down.
So, although having been sold to the peoples of Europe as a benign project to once and for all stop the troubles between European nations, it could very well be the opposite. The European project may end up being the cause of deep devisions between the European nations.
Too bad, but the EU has already become an anti-democratic monster years ago, so I won't shed a tear if it gets finished. There will be plenty of trouble and pain if that happens, to be sure. But things that are bound to go wrong eventually do go wrong. Let's face that and after the crash we can work toward a new and more sensible European community.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
Well done! Thanks.
Posted by Jones on 3/24/2010 2:13:25 PM
Mr. Rogers is no novice to currency trading... he holds large short positions on the Euro. It is in his interests to talk it down.
Posted by Joseph on 3/24/2010 3:19:11 PM
With all do respect Daily Bell. I agree with most of your arguments, however your assertion that Southern Europe does not have a strong tradition of small business entrepreneurship is inaccurate.
SMEs are still the engine of the Italian economy. One could argue that Italy has selfishly protected their SMEs from cross-border take-overs by their northern neighbors.
Also, Private Equity has a tough time in Italy as family-owned businesses have a difficult time handing over the key to their factories to outsiders. Some of this insular provincialism is a fault.
However, it is admirable that many families would rather shutter some factories and consolidate rather than to sell out and send the infrastructure in its entirety to China, India or Vietnam.
The main obstacle to Italy's economy is its main virtue: SMEz. Also, innovation is stifled as the gerintocarcy sides with the upper echelon oligarchies like the Agnelli family. The cost to start a business in Italy is $4,500. In the US all you need is a business card.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
"Innovation is stifled as the gerintocarcy sides with the upper echelon oligarchies like the Agnelli family. The cost to start a business in Italy is $4,500. In the US all you need is a business card."
This was the main point we were trying to make - that in Europe, and especially in Southern Europe, there are many barriers to entry for small business.
Posted by The Gimlet Eye on 3/24/2010 3:56:49 PM
This is devastating analysis, deadly to the "central banking" paradigm laid out for us by "the power elite." You have explained beautifully why this "paradigm" will not work and is set to implode.
I think you have stated previously that this implosion is by design, deliberate, and part of a master plan. Yes, it seems incredible that any country in the "EU" would want to give up sovereignty over its own currency! That is a recipe for suicide!
I am speaking of social unrest of all types, and perhaps worse. It makes me shudder to think about it. We should remember here that most people are not "up" on this subject. They are getting left behind, so to speak. When the trouble really starts, they are not going to understand.
Thanks, we agree with your analysis, though we are hopeful that more and more will understand what's going on through the power of the Internet.
Posted by Iddy on 3/24/2010 8:07:44 PM
Break ups, melt downs and show downs.The story continues.
Reply from the Daily Bell:
It will be interesting to watch, to say the least ...
Posted by Peter on 3/24/2010 8:47:15 PM
Jim Rogers, a man with outstanding market instinct is the first to admit he isn't a great market timer so let me guess, it isn't going to take 15 to 20 years for the Euro to breakdown,
I think the root of the euro's stability is this: Will the various EU member states arrive at a consensus as to the level of EU currency inflation - universally necessary to dilute the many greatly differing credit repayment obligations and debts of the various EU members - some now with exponentially rising numbers.
Such common agreement would mean that the more responsible members would find themselves increasingly the providers to the less responsible community members, ultimately to the point of near total inferior member adoption. Does the new world order brigade have sufficient power to force this servitude on the financially responsible and productive EU nation state?
Somehow I don't think so !!!
Reply from the Daily Bell:
Good points.
Posted by Goldfinger on 3/25/2010 10:38:36 AM
Yes Jim the sentiment in Germany is against a bail out of Greece, or any other incompetent country.Greece should leave the euro zone.
For years now the PIIGS have sucked up as much money as they could get out of Brussels for various projects without addressing their economies. The party is over, and now they should be made to pay the piper.
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