Asset Protection Strategies, EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
Former CIA Spy Robert Steele Wants to Strangle Leviathan With 'Open Source' Governance
By Anthony Wile - June 29, 2014

Introduction: Robert Steele is the author, editor, or publisher of nine books, mostly on intelligence and information operations, and all of them available free online as well as at Amazon. His one political book, ELECTION 2008: Lipstick on the Pig (2008) anticipates themes in his brief 2012 candidacy for the Reform Party presidential nomination, also viewable at We the People Reform Coalition. In his writing, including many book reviews (he is the #1 Amazon reviewer for non-fiction, reading in 98 categories), Robert Steele is a zealot about the truth, about ending top-down government by dictat in favor of bottom-up self-governance among individuals, and about true cost economics in the context of holistic analytics. Born in New York in 1952, Robert Steele was raised as the son of an oil engineer in South America and Asia. He earned degrees in Political Science from Muhlenberg College, in International Relations from Lehigh University, and in Public Administration from the University of Oklahoma. He is also a distinguished graduate of the Naval War College, and of the CIA Mid-Career Course. He has been a Marine Corps infantry, intelligence, and administrative officer; a clandestine operations officer (spy); and the senior civilian responsible for creating the Marine Corps Intelligence Activity.

Daily Bell: We recently ran an article pointing out your open source perspective still relied on governance for its implementation. We questioned why your ideas couldn't simply be part of a societal integration driven by private enterprise. You have been kind enough to sit down for a quick interview based on the significant interest in your positions. So give us some background. What exactly is your "open source philosophy"?

Robert Steele: "Open Source" is a meme and a mindset that is rooted in an absolute faith in the truth as the foundation for good decisions – political, economic, social, whatever. In my view, transparency is the most important attribute of any human relationship – secrecy is a form of corruption that enables theft. Transparency and truth together create trust, and trust, not money, is the one tangible value necessary to make all forms of human collaboration most effective. I also like to emphasize that the Open Source approach needs to be "all in." Any individual open, such as Open Data or Open Government, is worthless without the others – for example, Open Data needs Open Software and Open Hardware as well as Open Cloud and Open Spectrum, while Open Government needs all of those and Open Ballot Access, among others.

Daily Bell: Why does it need government to be implemented? Why can't you offer up ideas within the context of a marketplace driven social revolution?

Robert Steele: If I could get the Koch brothers to fund it, great. If I could get 100 million citizens to donate $20 each, annually, to fund it, even better. Realistically, the USA has hit bottom, this is a transformative initiative, and the fastest way to fund it and leverage it is via a government that now spends $80 billion a year on secret intelligence sources that are not processed and offer little of value to anyone. Regardless of how one might feel about government per se or the Obama-Biden Administration specifically, there is no downside to creating an Open Source Agency, unless you happen to be a traitor, thief, or charlatan. With all of the citizen angst over NSA's mass surveillance as well as CIA's rendition and torture and drone assassination program, I can think of no better legacy for Obama-Biden than this one. It nurtures open source everything, it does not own it. It restores public agency. It nurtured direct democracy.

Daily Bell: You were accepted by the Reform Party as a presidential candidate, yet you have been a member of the Libertarian Party. If you were invited to compete for a libertarian nomination, what points would you make in your convention appearance?

Robert Steele: Everyone vying for your nomination is seeking to pass a litmus test you have devised, seeking to offer opinions that conform to your pre-established views and biases. I'm here to tell you that you will never, ever, elect a President using that model, which has destroyed the Republican Party along the way.

If the Libertarian Party, the third largest party, wants to win, it needs to win by unifying all six of the accredited small parties, the Independents, and the sanity wings of the Democratic and Republican parties. [The six nationally-accredited small parties now blocked from ballot access in most states are the Constitution, Green, Libertarian, Natural Law, Reform, and Socialist parties. Emergent and not yet nationally-accredited are the Justice and Working Families parties.]

My views on the issues do not matter. My job as your candidate, if nominated, are to a) lead the team to a win and b) ensure that from this day forward we restore integrity to our electoral process and our governance process. With integrity comes the dismantling of monolith we call the US Government along with the Federal Reserve and the private monopoly over money that has harmed us all.

Electoral Reform is the one issue where we have the power to craft a national summit, publish an ultimatum, devise an eleven-point electoral reform act, and occupy every home office of every Senator and Representative until that act is passed, ideally in time to impact on 2014 but certainly no later than the 4th of July 2015. Nominating me commits the party to leading the charge for electoral reform for all.

I am on record as saying that government should never employ more than 5% of the total population and that has not been good enough for some of you. I humbly submit that until the Libertarian Party is able to reduce its Absolutist tendencies by one third, and play well with others seeking common ground toward our common goal of restoring the Constitution and the Republic, you – we – will remain patsies rather than players.

I know how to win. You know how to mobilize. Together we can retire the two-party tyranny and restore governance – minimalist governance – Of, By, and For We the People. Such governance would include a restoration of State rights and state designation of Senators; an end to all taxes less an Automated Payment Transaction Tax whose level is set by public vote, not by government dictat; a Coalition Cabinet making transparent decisions based on ethical evidence based public decision-support; and a commitment to full employment, to the closure of the Federal Reserve, and to Ron Paul as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States of America.

I want all of us to win, to be our own masters, not the political toys of the ultra-wealthy. I envision a future in which the Libertarian Party and the Green Party are the two largest parties in America, a future in which every party including the Justice Party and the Working Families Party have ballot access, a future in which we do not fear the government, the government fears us.

Learn more at We the People Reform Coalition.

Daily Bell: Most of our perspective comes from the Austrian insight that human action is fundamental to civil society and that "experts" don't exist because no one can predict a future filled with independent actors. It is for this reason that we are skeptical of monopoly central banking and regulation in general. It is almost impossible to impose something on people that will work as planned or "better" their lives … including utopian schemes, no matter how well-meaning. What say you?

Robert Steele: There are two flaws in the Austrian vision. The first stems from a lack of whole systems thinking and an appreciation for true cost economics. I buy in to everything else about the Austrian economic vision to the extent I have been able to appreciate it. Certainly we must eliminate all central banks, and probably also have a debt jubilee at the national, state, and local levels. Government regulatory endeavors must be turned back with one huge corollary: the education of the individual must be our paramount obligation as a community – an education that is holistic and deeply steeped in ethics and philosophy.

The Earth is a closed system and human science has advanced far beyond the ability of humans to calibrate the damage they do. Individual rights to punch the air end where my nose begins. I would like to see Austrian economics take a page from Herman Daly's ecological economics and the ethical economics work of Mason Gaffney along with Fred Harrison, with such titles as The Corruption of Economics and The Power of the Land: An Inquiry into Unemployment, the Profits Crisis and Land Speculation (1983). I am not an economist – I am an intelligence (decision-support) professional. What I do is get everyone's point of view on the table and hash out a sensible accommodation.

Actors are independent in theory, but philosophy, education and social acculturation are powerful forces. I remain a huge admirer of Will Durant's 1916 doctoral dissertation, published as Philosophy and the Social Problem (2008). Where I find the Libertarians falling short is in their obsession with Austrian economics to the exclusion of all else. If I could get Libertarians to read just one book, this is the one.

The second flaw relates to how humans differ from other species in that we can think forward. I completely agree about the futility of futures forecasting, the common mistake made by everyone from Singapore to South Africa. What humans have not been doing is what E.O. Wilson speaks to in Consilience: The Unity of Knowledge (1999). Science has developed at an astonishing pace, but philosophy and the social sciences are retarded by comparison. Governments and communities have been irresponsible in failing to make the proper education of the individual (as opposed to rote factory-model indoctrination). We have it in ourselves to create heaven on Earth, a prosperous world at peace, but we have allowed age-old banking and merchant interests to continue to corrupt our governments, fragment our societies, and leverage information asymmetries so as to privatize profit, externalize costs and screw the 99% and their future generations. It need not be this way.

Daily Bell: Returning to some of your prior commentary, let's take a few points one at a time. You believe full-time government employees should never comprise more than 5% of the total population. But why this many? What is it government can do that the private marketplace cannot do as well or better?

Robert Steele: As best I can tell, there are two major differences between my public philosophy on how to better our lot, and that of the hard-core Libertarians, Absolutists every one. First, I believe that there are services of common concern where it makes sense to organize community solutions be they local, state, or national. Second, I believe that we have an obligation to serve as stewards of the Earth for future generations, and not simply take for ourselves all that we can in the here and now. I hope you will give me the benefit of the doubt in offering up such a low number – 5% is a generally accepted metric for administrative costs and investments in high-performance organizations (or communities). Sadly, both government and the private marketplace are totally lacking in integrity today, one reason why I am so strongly in favor of open source everything inclusive of holistic analytics and true cost economics. Here is a quote from a NYC CEO I particularly like:

When things are not going well, until you get the truth out on the table, no matter how ugly, you are not in a position to deal with it. Bob Seelert, Chairman of Saatchi & Saatchi Worldwide (New York)

I think where we can have a meeting of minds is in agreeing that most forms of vertical organization, in which we as individuals surrender authority to a "higher" power, are very bad for all of us. Whether government or private sector, such organization are immediately corrupt, and their leaders become thieves. Now that the Internet makes possible true democracy – to include balloting all major decisions – there is every reason to begin dismantling all forms of "big" while moving as quickly as possible to restore local and state sovereignty over all matters and especially commercial matters. In brief, I take issue with organizational privilege and immunity from accountability – both public and private – and seek to reassert the authority of the individual and the community over all public matters.

Daily Bell: You want to eliminate ALL taxes less an automated payment transaction tax set by public poll (which also means that the public must vote to raise that rate to finance any war – and of course, no borrowing of any kind). What do you mean by a transaction tax? A VAT? And wouldn't a transaction leave open the door for considerable government levies? Finally, what about monopoly central banking, which is the most invasive tax of all via monetary inflation. Would you argue for getting rid of it and for letting money compete privately?

Robert Steele: I have embraced the Automated Payment Transaction (APT) Tax as devised by Dr. Edgar Feige, and have posted a number of documents (including Ron Paul's Plan to Restore America, at We the People Reform Coalition under the Balanced Budget page. There are three key points I would make here, deferring readers to the substance that is online for all else.

First, the APT Tax would apply to all stock and currency transactions and essentially cover volumes 100 times larger than the current tax base that is prejudicial to individuals. Hence the flat tax would be miniscule, 100 times less than the current tax rate of roughly 30%.

Second, the public, not the government, would set this rate. There is no government power over this rate, which along with my view that we should end the Federal Reserve and demand a balanced budget with borrowing absolutely forbidden, brings us all to a sound footing fairly quickly.

Third, because this is an across-the-board tax split equally between the buyer and the seller, it allows the elimination of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the US tax code – the latter is nothing more than legalized blackmail allowing Members of Congress to extort campaign contributions in return for "exclusions." It eliminates all costs associated with tax collection today, eliminates personal, corporate, state, and local taxes, fuel, alcohol, cigarette, sales, estate, and excise taxes. It eliminates the debt to the extent we wish to – personally I feel most of our debt to banks is illegitimate and we are overdue for a debt jubilee for both individuals and organizations.

I am not an expert on money but I do reject the idea that banks should be allowed to create money out of thin air and I do believe that most money should be local. I oppose absentee ownership of anything, especially land. Bitcoin and other forms of virtual currency are foreign to me but appear to be a move in the right direction. On balance I place more value in time-energy labor and intellect than I do in landlords, and I strongly favor employee owned companies and public boycotts of all corporate offerings that fail to meet true cost economics standards of merit.

Daily Bell: You are a proponent of "holistic analytics and true cost economics." Define these terms, please, and tell us why they are important. You see them within the context of balance and legitimacy how?

Robert Steele: I am as you might imagine quite disgusted with the US public school system and not that impressed by private schools either. There has been an education bubble, although one could also call it an education cesspool. Airplanes fly because they are aerodynamically balanced. They fly best when both engines are present and operating. The government – and many corporations today – appear to believe that they can operate on the basis of half-truths and outright lies (for example, the actual unemployment rate in the USA is 22.4%, see for an honest professional appraisal on this point).

Holistic analytics means that any decision is made on the basis of a 360 degree perspective, one including an appreciation for history and an anticipation of future costs. Here below is a graphic that shows what a community might wish to consider in devising policies and investment plans that take into account the major threats to humanity as well as the core policies. What I highlight in this graphic is the sheer idiocy of a government that obsesses on the two red dots in how it spends the bulk of the taxpayer dollar, to the detriment of all else.

Let me pick a fight on the topic of fracking. Fracking is criminal idiocy. It produces earthquakes and contaminates ground water that is already vanishing at a frightening rate – 30 towns in Texas are about to run out of water completely. Fracking is an example of what happens when you have a corrupt industry collaborating with a corrupt government, and both collude to screw the public for private gain.

True cost economics – sometimes called ecological economics but that is not something I do because true costs include social costs as well as environmental costs – demands that we stop privatizing profit and externalizing costs. Allowing Coca Cola and Nestle to suck up as much ground water as they wish without paying for it and without regard to the fact that every town for 500 miles around is going to be out of water in the future because of their irresponsibility – and the irresponsibility of corrupt state and local officials – is a crime against humanity – our public. Similarly, "smart phones" put hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens into leukemia wards and early graves, while also contaminating China's ground water with Class A carcinogenics.

Finally, we have to consider how our policies and investments might be making things worse. The Transpacific Partnership is riddled with secrets that give corporations rights they do not deserve, at the expense of the publics in both our country and theirs. It is a corrupt agreement in every possible sense of the word, and if implemented – it will not be (Obama was laughed out of Phnom Penh) – would increase poverty. Global poverty matters because the more of it there is, the greater our problems with illegal immigration and the disease and other issues that mobs of poor people bring with them.

Daily Bell: You want NSA to become the National Processing Agency and its collection abolished. What does that mean in practice? You want to abolish the NRO and merge the NGA with USGS. Explain these acronyms and why you are making the recommendation that you are.

Robert Steele: I am perhaps the most published intelligence reformer in the English language, and would be quite delighted if one day a President asked me to close down the secret intelligence community, less the 20% that I consider essential. NSA is in the business of spending money and sabotaging US commercial communications and computing. In my first book, ON INTELLIGENCE: Spies and Secrecy in an Open World, with a Foreword by Senator David Boren (D-OK), past Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI), I complained that National Security Agency (NSA) was refusing to do what it had been told to do, make US private sector communications and computing secure from French, German, Israeli, and Chinese exploitation. Now we know that the NSA has been installing back doors, with the connivance of unethical senior leaders at Dell, IBM, Microsoft, and many other corporations. Some of these back doors have been so infantile they have been easily discovered by criminals in Russia and elsewhere, but NSA has continued to lie to Congress about the facts.

Most of the secret world is largely worthless. NSA has not prevented any terrorist incidents, and their two biggest secrets are that a) they process less than 1% of everything they collect and b) the Chinese have been riding the electrical circuits into their computers for over a decade. The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) clandestine service, of which I was a member, does some good things but the reality is that 90% of what CIA claims is collected by clandestine means is actually either a hand-out from foreign intelligence services, or the result of legal traveler debriefings carried out within the USA. The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) which builds satellites that do petabyte-level collection has no clue how to achieve exoscale performance (feeds and speeds), and I am pretty sure they do not have any idea how to create a dark fiber network capable of getting us to an all-source near-real-time exploitation environment. The National Geospatial Agency (NGA) is completely delusional about geospatial matters, and so bad that both Google Earth and CrisisMappers are preferred by combat analysts world-wide. The Director of National Intelligence (DNI) oversees all of this with a complacency that is in my view criminal. The DNI should be abolished, the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) re-established, and an Open Source Agency (OSA) created to serve as the gold standard for what can be known legally and ethically at virtually no expense, while also providing decision-support to everyone – the Cabinet, Congress, the private sector, media, the public. Intelligence is not about secret inputs that cost a great deal of money. Properly understood, intelligence is about decision-support – 90% of which cannot be created with secret sources and methods, and can be created with open sources and methods.

Daily Bell: You believe the FBI should be recruited to find and neutralize traitors of all sorts and put a stop to elite pedophilia and white collar crime. How does this create a "smart nation."

Robert Steele: This is not a juxtaposition I have created. As much as I champion open sources, if I have learned one thing in the last 40 years of watching the US Government make a mess of things, it is that we are riddled with traitors of all sorts – religious traitors, ideological traitors, and of course financial traitors. While some of this treason is sponsored by foreign nations, most of it is home grown – buying decisions that waste US citizen blood, treasure, and spirit, for private gain at public expense. We need Open Source Everything (OSE) but we also need a secret counterintelligence service that is allowed to go after traitors at the highest levels, not something the FBI is allowed to do today – they spend their time fighting the small time crooks and child porn industry instead of going after the banks and the elite pedophiles.

A "smart nation" is one in which all eight of the major information networks – academia, civil society, commerce, government, law enforcement, media, military, and non-government/non-profit – are transparent, truthful, and trustworthy – and both have access to all relevant information across all areas of interest, and share that information while sharing the burden of sense-making. I wrote the first article on this topic, "Creating a Smart Nation: Strategy, Policy, Intelligence, and Information," in Government Information Quarterly 13/2 1996, and later, in partnership with Congressman Rob Simmons (R-CT-02), published a book, THE SMART NATION ACT: Public Intelligence in the Public Interest (2006).

Daily Bell: You are inspired by Jonas Salk and Kirkpatrick Sale to end secrecy and encourage bottom-up transparency. This is certainly a compelling vision, but how would you accomplish this in practice?

Robert Steele: The easiest way to answer this is to provide the graphic I created in the 1990s after reading an article by Salk and the book by Kirkpatrick Sale, Human Scale. It boils down to ending top-down rule by secrecy and ending corporate abuse of their public charters with short-term anti-social decisions, substituting instead bottom-up transparent consensus that takes the long-view. I might mention that the Native America concept of "seventh generation" thinking means that any decision should be made not just for the day, but against the day 200 years in the future when the seventh generation must deal with the true cost over time of our decision.

Daily Bell: What is your view of law enforcement and the Gulag that the US is becoming? Is it necessary that one in every three young people have a criminal interaction before the age of 25 – as USA Today once reported? Isn't that too many?

Robert Steele: At a non-conspiratorial level, I believe that DHS and the militarization of the police and the explosion in private sector security companies are all about employing pissed off, under-employed people. At a more strategic level, a great deal of our crime results from the criminalization of what should be legal behavior. Our prison industry actually bribes judges to convict young people and send them to jail where they can be slaves to a furniture manufacturer or whatever. Slavery is alive and well in the USA, and I highly recommend one particular book, John Bowe's Nobodies: Modern American Slave Labor and the Dark Side of the New Global Economy (2007). In my view, state and local law enforcement should not be allowed to accept federal funding – in fact, I would not allow the federal government to own land or exercise any form of martial authority within any state. State and local law enforcement personnel need to understand that they are the first line of defense for citizens, and that if they ever allow themselves to be federalized, they will be targets, and rightfully so. The good news is that Halliburton prison camps (which have been advertising for National Guard prison specialists) and the trains with shackles, while real, and off the table. This idiocy started under Reagan, with a plan to be able to detain and imprison 5,000 "terrorists" who walked and talked like illegal immigrants. This kind of stuff takes on a life of its own because Congress is corrupt to the bone and ignorant to boot. Governors need to start nullifying federal regulations and mandates and we need to restore local agriculture and other forms of commerce that have been killed by federal regulations written by mega-agriculture specifically to put Mom and Pop farms and butchers out of business.

Daily Bell: You claim that 90% of the federal "regulations" are there because that is how Congress blackmails business into contributing to their political action campaigns. But what about the 10 percent that are valid, in your view? What are those? Can you explain the reason for them?

Robert Steele: You just won't give me any slack at all, will you? As I observe in my answer to the third question above, if Libertarianism wants to have a real shot at transforming America, it is going to have to become less Absolutist. Let's take health as an example. I am disgusted by the US Government's abject support for a criminally over-priced and under-thought health industry in which expensive medical procedures and pharmaceuticals that more often than not are poison, are touted as the whole enchilada.

I am very concerned about the ignorance and irresponsibility of the US Government when it comes to actually understanding threats to public health. In no way should my statement about 10% be used to validate the US Government as it is now trained, organized, and equipped. I would also add that this number includes state and local governments.

Let me slip in here my view that we need to end the election of Senators. We should revert to the original practice of Senators being sent to Washington as representatives of their States, not as individual fat-cats who have become foot-soldiers for the two-party tyranny that blocks everyone else – Constitution, Green, Independent, Libertarian, Natural Law, Reform, and Socialist – and the rising Justice, Pirate, Working Families – parties from the ballot. The United STATES of America is a union of consenting STATES – it is not a monarchy over fiefdoms called states and individuals treated as serfs.

The chart below illustrated by views on how health should be mostly about education and information, with a balanced emphasis on individual and environmental health (building owners are responsible for assuring clean air and water in their building), a proper regard for natural cures that are free, and finally, treatment of hospitals and pharmaceuticals as a public service, not a profiteering murder machine.

Daily Bell: In recent article feedback, you wrote, "We have different definitions of government. My definition is focused on hybrid governance (not a monolithic institution called government that is used to loot the public treasury). While there is much to be said for the Austrian economic model over existing economic models, any model that does not calculate true cost across time including into the future, is inherently flawed if one accepts a moral obligation to be a steward for future generations." Can you explain what hybrid governance is and why it is important to be a steward for future generations? What does "being a steward" encompass? Is it government's job to ensure we are stewards?

Robert Steele: What I have found over time is that there are eight major information networks comprising the totality of society and the economy. These are the academic, civil society including labor unions and religions, commerce especially small business, government especially local, law enforcement especially local, media, military, and non-government/non-profit. Among these, the government is the least informed and the least effective. Hybrid governance means that we refuse to let "the government" make decisions and spend money in our name in isolation from all that can be known and in secret. Hybrid governance demands public decision-support (intelligence) visible to everyone, and public decision-making in which the true costs of that decision are on the table for public scrutiny prior to any law being passed or any decision to obligate public funds being made.

Stewardship for me is common sense. Would you as an individual shit in your well if you had to drink the water every day? Austrian economics is arguably one of the most sensible economic theories, but is strikes me as lacking in forward-thinking, it is too much in the moment and in one word, selfish.

Stewardship for me demands that we both protect fragile ecologies (both natural and social) for our larger communities and future generations, and that we stop government spending that is insanely counter-productive to both our social and economic well-being and that of all others around the world and into the future. In the case of the US Government today, I would want a public vote that stops all borrowing, demands a balanced budget, and cuts the government workforce at all levels by at least 50% within five years – 10% a year from base each of five years running. At the same time we need to eliminate excessive spending on a hollow military while creating a 450-ship Navy, a long-haul Air Force, and an air-mobile Army that takes over its own Close Air Support (CAS) mission. Below is a chart showing what we spend on the military today, against what it would cost to solve all of the world's major problems that create the flood of illegal immigrants to America and Europe.

Daily Bell: Let's back up a bit. Give us some personal history. Where were you born and where did you grow up? Why did you join the Marines and then the CIA? You've "trained more than 66 countries in open source methods." What do you mean, "train"?

Robert Steele: I was born on Long Island in New York State on 16 July 1952. At the age of 2 I began an early life outside the USA as the son of an oil engineer. I lived in the Dutch West Indies, Colombia, Viet-Nam at the height of the war (1963-1967), the Philippines, Thailand, and Singapore. I came back for college, earning an AB at Muhlenberg with a thesis on Multinational Corporations and Home/Host Country issues. That was my first exposure to predatory capitalism and corrupt governments. I went on to earn an MA in International Relations at Lehigh University with a thesis on predicting revolution, creating an analytic matrix that needs improvement but has not been equaled to date.

Later, in the 1980s, I earned an MPA from the University of Oklahoma with a thesis on Strategic Information (Mis-) Management, examining three Embassies and concluding that we collect 20% of the relevant information, spill 80% of that in how we handle it, and end up with only 2% of the relevant information, insufficient to overcome the political and economic corruption inherent in our government's decision process. I joined the CIA because the Marine Corps was boring at the time. I left the CIA after three overseas tours and three Washington tours because the Marine Corps asked me to return as a civilian and create the Marine Corps Intelligence Activity (MCIA), at the time our nation's newest national intelligence analysis facility. That is where I got hit in the head with the realization that there is nothing useful in our secret data bases in large part because we are ignoring all the open sources.

I sponsored a conference intended to be a small gathering for US Government stakeholders, it ended up attracting over 600 international participants. Then I was told I could not do it again, so I quit, over 900 people came to the second conference, and I began a fifteen-year global "walk-about" training most of the countries in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the Partnership for Peace (PfP) and many others from the southern hemisphere. By "train" I mean either engage 7,500 mid-career officers in an annual 3-5 day conference whose title was "Open Source Solutions: National Security & National Competitiveness," or engage directly with another 1,500 such officers and others at the parliamentary level in direct visits to around 20 countries.

Daily Bell: Follow up on this one: What specifically led to your awakening on the failure of secret intelligence and the need to pursue open sources of intelligence?

Robert Steele: I spent all of our money on a Top Secret information handling system, including a Special Intelligence Communications (SPINTCOM) capability, so that our analysts could have access to everything available from CIA, NSA, and others. In one corner far removed from the sensitive workstations, I put a PC with access to the Internet. Within two weeks the analysts were lining up for the PC. When I asked why, they said "there is nothing in the secret databases about Burundi, Haiti, or Somalia." This was an "aha" moment for me. I was serving on the Foreign Intelligence Requirements and Capabilities Plan (FIRCAP) national-level committee at the time, and understood that China and the Soviet Union were Priority 1 or 2, and everything else was down in Priority 4 through 7, but I had never until that moment realized that the secret world was completely ignoring all the lower priority countries and threats. I spent four years inside the US Government, from 1988-1992, trying to promote "gap-driven" collection over "priority-driven" collection (meaning always do the first pass on high priorities, but do not do a second pass until one pass has been made across all the other lower priorities).

Years later, in front of the Aspin-Brown Commission, I was given an opportunity to demonstrate the power of open sources, in what is now called "The Burundi Exercise." In an overnight competition the IC came up with a simplistic CIA map of the region and an economic study using Western assumptions. I delivered 1:50,000 combat charts from Russia that the NGA's predecessor did not have; 100% of Burundi in French imagery at the 10 meters level, cloud free and in the archives; a new order of battle for tribal forces created by Jane's overnight to my specifications; a list of the top 100 academics on Burundi for immediate interview; a similar list of journalists; and from Oxford Analytica, several presidential-level assessments of the genocide and related troubles far superior to anything being produced in Washington, D.C.

Although I had some successes over time, notably being hired to write the Open Source Intelligence Handbooks for NATO, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and US Special Operations, my ideas were quickly corrupted by vendors who saw an opportunity to sell bodies (US citizens with clearances) to surf the Internet, while avoiding the foreign human aspects of open source – in rough terms, 5% of knowledge is in the shallow web (what Google can see), another 15% is in the deep web (documents lacking persistent URLs), perhaps 30% is in analog or localized hard-copy (such as real estate and tax records) and the last 50% is resident in a human brain somewhere – knowing who knows and being able to face to face with them is the major part of OSINT, the part that Washington has not come to grips with.

Daily Bell: You write that "sharing creates wealth." What does this mean in practice? Do you intend to force people to share or will you leave it up to people's individual decisions?

Robert Steele: "Forcing" is not part of my vocabulary. You can look around today and see people sharing homes, hiring shared cars and bicycles, and so on. The "sharing economy" is a voluntary economy, and its biggest problem today is that the government is 20 years behind the times and unable to comprehend the change while trying to regulate it to death.

When I speak of sharing creating wealth, I am speaking primarily of information. My friend and mentor after a fashion, Alvin Toffler (who wrote a chapter on "The Future of the Spy" centered on my vision), was the first to write about sharing information as means of creating wealth, in his book PowerShift: Knowledge, Wealth, and Violence at the Edge of the 21st Century (1991). Subsequently, three books that I review and summarize at Amazon were published that expanded on this theme, and I recommend all of them to your readers: Barry Carter, Infinite Wealth: A New World of Collaboration and Abundance in the Knowledge Era (1999); Yochai Benkler, The Wealth of Networks: How Social Production Transforms Markets and Freedom (2007); and Alvin Toffler again, Revolutionary Wealth: How it will be created and how it will change our lives (2007). A simple search on "the sharing economy" will produce many online references. Among Libertarians the terms "cognitive surplus" may resonate, the core idea is that the real wealth is in the minds of humanity, and we, not others, should be able to monetize our capacity – generally in non-monetary terms – without being captured or exploited by masters in banking.

Daily Bell: Why wasn't the CIA happy with you, ultimately? What was the problem with your open-source perspective from the CIA's point of view?

Robert Steele: First, I should point out that my open source perspective is not what led to my leaving CIA. It was the Marine Corps invitation, combined with one small element of CIA being furious with me, which led to my career shift.

CIA is not a monolith. Within CIA, Ted Price, then chief of the career management staff of the Directorate of Operations, was furious with me because I refused to be a clandestine case officer again, pointing out that there was nothing clandestine coming out of people who worked under official cover and were easily known to local counterintelligence services, and nothing of major value was being produced. I moved myself to the Directorate of Intelligence, where I was very happy under the extraordinary leadership of Boyd Sutton, chief of the Advanced Programs and Evaluation Group, essentially the top vault in the nation, managing the DCI's oversight of all of the other agencies and their technical program. Price convened an Employee Review Panel (ERP) to get me fired – before that body met, the Marine Corps asked me to return as a civilian and I did so, with CIA certifying that I had been serving in GS-14 positions (CIA is rank in person, I was a GS-12) so I got a two-grade promotion overnight. Most of CIA is honest and effective. A few pieces and a few personalities are out of control and some of them border on psychopathic. A few other pieces, such as Dr. Jack Davis, the virtual dean of CIA analysts, and Dr. Gordon Oehler, leader in the 1980's of a reform movement in analytic tool-kits, understood my value. Sadly, within CIA as within any bureaucracy, innovators are considered malcontents to be marginalized.

Four years after I left CIA I sponsored the first OSINT conference and in a manner totally characteristic of its blinders, CIA agreed to attend provided that the conference was held at the SECRET level and included US citizens only. "What part of open source are you not understanding?" is an understatement. I was able to reach Admiral Bill Studeman, USN (Ret), then the Deputy Director of Central Intelligence (DDCI) and he not only ordered CIA to attend but also paid for 140 seats, which allowed my event to break even (I used no government time or money in organizing this event).

Today, and this is best understood through the references below, CIA is in disarray. The Open Source Center (OSC) at CIA, ostensibly the national service of common concern, does well enough with translations of online information, and very badly with everything else. The OSC has been forbidden by CIA's clandestine human intelligence service – I do not make this stuff up – from engaging with subject matter experts (SME) so no one talks to humans, especially foreigners without a clearance. This is easily found online by searching for the text: Hamilton Bean: The Paradox of Open Source: An Interview with Douglas J. Naquin with Letter from Robert Steele.

Recently I took the trouble to examine all the published references on OSINT (search for OSINT Literature Review, Name Association, Lessons Learned), most of them associated with the international conference I managed for over 15 years, and one of the things I learned is that CIA and its academic camp-followers refuse to engage with any thinking outside their little box. CIA is a bureaucracy. It does not know what it does not know, one reason open everything is essential.

Daily Bell: Let's focus a bit on intel agencies. The nation didn't have any until after World War II – except maybe for the FBI and even the FBI was a 20th century invention. The nation got along fine without the current intel-industrial complex. Why does it need one now? Isn't it causing more problems than it is solving?

Robert Steele: We do not need the military-industrial complex that President Dwight Eisenhower warned us about. I trace the problem back to Toynbee's observation that "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." Although the quote is now said to be fabricated, I have always liked the story about one constituent telling Davey Crockett (after Crockett foolishly voted to provide a grant to a charity) that the money was "not yours to give." The problem with our taxation and our political economic is that it is a machine for transferring wealth from the public to special interests. Members of Congress today do not vote to spend money in the public interest – they vote to optimize the 5% standard kick-back they get for political campaigns.

There is an ample literature now on how Lockheed Martin, among others, worked with CIA and other parties to create the communist menace (and more recently the terrorist menace), all for the sake of keeping the money moving. In my view, two-thirds or more of the US Government is demonstrably worthless and even pathological to human existence. Good people trapped in a bad system, assuredly, but we should not be paying for mega everything – from agriculture to energy to health to the military. How the US Government spends our money is totally disconnected from the public interest.

This is a major reason I became a champion for OSINT. My second book, THE NEW CRAFT OF INTELLIGENCE: Personal, Public, & Political (2002), with a Foreword from Senator Pat Roberts (R-KS), then the serving Chairman of the SSCI, explicitly addresses the need to get the government out of the secret intelligence business, and shift instead to public intelligence in the public interest. We went to war on Iraq on the basis of 935 now-documented lies led by Dick Cheney. In the face of those lies full-page ads (I was a minor millionaire at the time) were refused by the New York Times, Washington Post, and others – they treated us the way the public treated the Dixie Chicks, whose instincts were correct. In the face of those lies our generals and admirals kept silent, betraying their oaths to defend the Constitution against all enemies domestic and foreign. Today the Obama-Biden administration and its attorney general are arguably more dangerous to human safety and freedom at home and abroad than Bush-Cheney. The first broke one big state at great expense – recently we have created a swath of destruction running across the Middle East and North Africa that will plague Europe – and the US – for decades.

Daily Bell: The initial intelligence agency concept was a bankers' concept. Isn't it probable that at the top Western intelligence agencies report to private globalist interests and not to the official political system into which they are supposedly integrated?

Robert Steele: These are all great questions. I have written Search: Seven CIAs [Steele on the Record] and encourage readers to see the search results for Deep State @ Phi Beta Iota. The non-conspiracy answer is that Roosevelt encouraged multiple intelligence endeavors, many of them clowns in action, seeking to be able to play off the military services against the Department of State and others. There has always been a Wall Street CIA, as well as a Mormon CIA, an Opus Dei CIA, and so on. Realistically what I think happens is that one generation of traitors recruits the next, and CIA – as well as the FBI, Treasury, and other elements of government – always have elements within them that are loyal to religions, financial interests, or political ideologies, and in betrayal of the public trust. This is why I place so much importance on counterintelligence as the one secret capability I really want to have going into the future. We need to clean house. I also emphasize Truth & Reconciliation. I am not seeking a blood-bath or a Saturday Night Massacre, just a house-cleaning.


Daily Bell: Aren't there only three international Western intelligence agencies that matter – the CIA, MI6 and Mossad?

Robert Steele: In my view, these may be the largest or most effective in very narrow areas of understanding, but all of them are more focused on direct action (covert influence and secret war) than they are on intelligence as decision-support. My latest chapter in an academic book, "The Evolving Craft of Intelligence," (2013) outlines the separation between the traditional concept of intelligence as secret war (that was the first era), intelligence as strategic analytics (second era, quickly subverted), and intelligence as smart nation (third era, in gestation now). Jack Devine, whom I worked for at CIA and am still in touch with, has written an excellent book, Good Hunting: An American Spymaster's Story (2014) that I summarize in an Amazon review. Although I do not agree with his focus, I am certainly respectful of the capabilities and accomplishments of all three organizations in their narrow spheres. Where I take issue is in their failure to actually inform statecraft. As I wrote for CounterPunch, in "Intelligence for the President – AND Everyone Else" (2009), the sad reality is the secret world spend money and blows things up, but it does not actually do holistic analytics, true cost economics, or ruthless counterintelligence such that decisions are made in the public interest instead of special interests. There is a short academic piece co-authored with Dr. Rob Dover of the UK, "Intelligence and National Strategy? Rethinking Intelligence – Seven Barriers to Reform" (2014) that captures seven myths about secret intelligence and what to do about it.

I will conclude here with just two points:

1) Intelligence properly understood and practiced is about decision-support, not about secret sources and methods that are very expensive and badly managed. Anyone can do decision-support by applying the proven process of intelligence – requirements definition (what do we need to know), collection management (know who knows), source discovery and validation, multi-source fusion, 360 degree holistic analytics respectful of cultural and historical context, and finally, actionable timely presentation to the deciders. Intelligence makes a difference – everything else is classified news or noise.

2) Every nation and every organization needs the intelligence function. I would not be so quick to demean Third World intelligence agencies. Some of them have recruited CIA employees as traitors. Others have planted electronic devices in US Embassies and other locations. Still others have worked very effectively with the West in creating continent-wide capabilities in which the indigenous services provide the human case officers on the street, while the West provides money and machines. I consider the South African service, the Venezuelan service, and a few others, perhaps including Singapore, to be quite extraordinary in their respective niches. What we do not have today, that the Open Source Agency would fund, is a Multinational Decision-Support Centre (MDSC) in which every country has access to a shared baseline of knowledge and capabilities, all transparent, all truthful, all building trust. Trust is not something CIA, MI-6, and the Mossad are capable of delivering.

Daily Bell: Why couldn't these three agencies stop 9/11? What DID happen on 9/11?

Robert Steele: As a top Amazon reviewer for non-fiction I have read and reviewed a number of books on 9/11, as well as DVDs. I have done the same for the John F. Kennedy assassination. Both JFK and Martin Luther King were assassinated by elements of the US Government. This is now known and beyond dispute. One day 9/11, Sandy Hook, and the Boston Bombing will be similarly exposed, as will the prevalence of pedophilia as an elite privilege protected by the FBI (itself founded by America's leading pedophile, J. Edgar Hoover).

CIA, then "led" by George Tenet, followed direction from Dick Cheney and did everything in its power at the political level to frustrate successful efforts that did detect 9/11 in advance. ABLE DANGER, for example. It is now known that Tenet ordered Keith Alexander, then head of the US Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) to "shut down" ABLE DANGER after it found two of the hijackers at an address in Maryland. Tenet worked with the FBI to raid the vendor offices to confiscate all ABLE DANGER records.

It is now known that thirteen countries warned us in advance of 9/11. This list, and additional information compiled by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and others, can be found itemized with many links at Mini-Me: 9/11 Convergence + NEW Information + Comment by Robert Steele + List of Advance Warnings from Over 13 Countries. I have posted a personal comment there as well, and I support a privately-funded investigation of 9/11, ideally in time to subpoena Dick Cheney before his natural death.

As for what did happen on 9/11, I will outline a very brief sequence of events and simply say that in my view 9/11 remains to be properly investigated; ample evidence exists to indict and then further investigate Dick Cheney, Larry Silverstein, Donald Rumsfeld, and Rudy Guliani; and I am certain the truth will be known to the public in my lifetime (next 20 years). 25 years seems to be the time period after which what were once derided as conspiracy theories are found to be true and accepted by a public trained to avoid "conspiracy theories" as if they were somehow harmful.

1) Months before 9/11, based on the many advance warnings, Dick Cheney scheduled a national counterterrorism exercise to give himself complete and absolute control over the US Government and military on "the day." Three months in advance. of 9/11.

2) The dogs were removed from the buildings in NYC two weeks prior to 9/11, and not allowed back thereafter. Ample evidence exists of the implantation of controlled demolitions.

3) The FEMA Command Center was set up on the piers of NYC the night before 9/11.

4) Rudy Guliani, in advance of 9/11, made provisions for securing the site and immediately destroying the crime scene by carting away as much of the evidence as fast as possible, in trucks with GPS receivers so no load could be mis-directed.

5) I will not argue the specifics of how the buildings were brought down, this should be done by an independent public investigation. I will just observe that WTC 7 was not hit by anything, and there is zero evidence of any airplane actually hitting the Pentagon – indeed the USAF Major General previously responsible for all Soviet imagery analysis went on television in the immediate aftermath of the Pentagon strike, when the round hole was still visible and no collapse of the outer wall had occurred, and said there was no question but that a missile hit the Pentagon. I have cleaned up after aircraft disasters, and found that body parts, luggage, and seats are widely scattered. Aircraft parts are numbered. None of this could be found at the Pentagon.

6) The 9/11 Commission, which kindly put an Open Source Agency on pages 23 and 413 of their Report, was at best a ham-fisted juvenile effort pretending to study something none of them actually wanted to get to the bottom of; and at worst a cover-up 100 times worse than the Warren Commission, because in this instance I personally believe that Dick Cheney, with malice aforethought, led the murder of over 3,000 citizens in order to get his justification for invading Iraq. I am reminded of Henry Kissinger's now famous quote that drew laughter in the White House, "The illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a little longer." As a one-time Libertarian, and a 100% Patriot, nothing sickens more than people who treat their own citizens as expendable for theater. The day will come, as it did with the USS Liberty, when those cowed into silence by the threat of loss of pension or worse, will speak out and we will know the truth.

7) In closing I will honor the Families of 9/11, whom I will always think of as the "first objectors." Their gut instincts were right, and those that have refused the governments hush money to this day are in my view the best of the American patriotic movement. I like to say the truth at any cost lowers all other costs. When the truth of 9/11 is known – I do not claim to know it – it will change US politics forever.

Daily Bell: It seems as if ever since 9/11 the West has been descending further into a morass of authoritarianism and corporatism. It's as if 9/11 is being used to justify every bad thing reducing or removing civil liberties. Agree? Disagree?

Robert Steele: Agree completely. 9/11 – however skeptical we may be about official explanations – has had the result of cowing the public into silence and enabling government, especially Western governments, to do terrible things at great expense, both abroad and at home.

Daily Bell: When did Bin Laden really die – and where?

Robert Steele: Love this question. There are over 90 entries at Bin Laden Show: Entries 00-99 UPDATED 4 Jan 2014. I point your readers toward Bin Laden Show 14: Dr. Steve Pieczenik Nails It — Bin Laden Died in 2001 — Reiterates (Has Proof) 9/11 Was a Cheney-Led Stand-Down False Flag Operation. Indictment? I agree with long-serving Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Dr. Steve Piecznik in putting Bin Laden's death in the 2001 timeframe, from natural causes. See also Bin Laden Show 45: Overview of Fake Bin Ladens which includes the photo below.

Among the 90 entries are several on how Blackwater was seen in Abbottabad in 2010. With CIA on record as saying it had safehouses in the vicinity of the alleged Bin Laden hide-out, I consider the entire event to have been a fabrication with many lies from how they found him to how they tested his DNA. My personal view is that this was a political event orchestrated by Leon Panetta and a handful of unethical CIA officers, and that the Joint Special Operations Group (JSOG) was lied to by CIA. If this were real, five men with silencers departing from the safehouse would have been the chosen course of action, with extraction to be done via standard alternative means after the prisoner or body was secure in a covert location. To have JSOG fly for hours from an adjacent county is beyond my professional comprehension. If we add to this the death of most of the Navy special operators (SEALS) after the fact, we cannot deny the very high probability that everything about this operation was a lie. It

Daily Bell: Why are the CIA and FBI involved in so many apparent false flags that seem to be aimed at scaring people into giving up yet more power and wealth to domestic and international governmental facilities? Why is it the apparent goal of such intel agencies to consolidate more power for a handful of sociopolitical, economic and governmental elites? Who gains from this?

Robert Steele: I did not really "get" the breadth of the false flag marketplace until after 9/11. I knew that false flags started in earnest with Ed Lansdale, who invented the concept of having fake terrorists in the Philippines as a means of scaring the public and gaining public support for the desired presidential candidate cast as the hero in this theatrical drama. I knew that CIA has over the course of history done bombings to exacerbate tensions, for example between Buddhists and Catholics in Viet-Nam. I even knew that CIA had reinstalled fascists in Germany, Italy, and Japan, and created Operation Gladio as a stay-behind network that morphed into a false flag capability, especially in Italy. What I had not expected was the use of this technique in the USA, with Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombing being two of the most blatant and yet successful endeavors to date.

I really have to emphasize that I consider 90% of the government to consist of good people trapped in a bad system. This stuff is done by very small cadres of loyalists combined with amoral careerists who never stop to think about the philosophical implications of creating an environment in which the public no longer believes most of what the government seeks to communicate. Most surprising to me has been the ease with which a dumbed-down drugged-up public – including ostensibly educated middle-class professionals now serving across the country – has bought in to the myths.

The single greatest burden I bear as a truth teller is this whole 9/11 and false flag conversation. After the Guardian interviewed me, the story was picked up across many channels, and what I noticed immediately was that in three of those channels, all anyone could talk about was how I said at the Liberation Technology conference, in answer to a question, that I believed the Pentagon was hit by a missile. Completely apart from the fact that this was a single question at the end of a 45-minute presentation about Open Source Everything, what I find utterly riveting is that it is almost as if all these drones have been programmed so that the instant there is a counter-narrative to the approved myth, their minds shut down and they go into fight or flight mode.

The elite – and our politicians, the worst of the servant class – are not actually stupid, but they suffer from inherited wealth, they are surrounded by sycophants that will lose their jobs if they try to tell the truth, and they are at the tail end of an era in which lies have worked, and they have been able to screw 99% of the public most of the time. Today the elite is getting worried. There was just a conference in London sponsored by the Rothschilds on "what to do about revolution," and a member of the elite has just published a warning that "the pitchforks are coming."

False Flags are one form of lie. There are many others. Here are some book titles I use to make the point that the biggest challenge the public faces is in the information arena. That is why I consider Open Source Everything to be so vital to our wellbeing.

Perhaps contrary to what most might think – especially those so quick to label me a lunatic or an idiot on the basis of their own ignorance – I am a devout believer in a non-violent revolution enabled by Truth & Reconciliation. It would do us no good at all to destroy our government and our communities in the process of seeking to take power with violence. It would do us no good to confiscate all the illegitimate wealth on the planet for redistribution. Our challenges are much larger than can be fixed by any form of redistributive justice or violence. We need to build a new world rooted in the truth and respectful of the Earth, the five billion poor, and future generations.

Daily Bell: Isn't the Internet exposing these intel machinations? Don't the people at the top know that 10 or 20 or even 50 million people reading and watching the Internet now harbor grave doubts about government and the real agenda of those who run it and stand behind it?

Robert Steele: The paradox of the Internet is that it brings the crazy together and helps perpetuate belief systems that could not stand the light of day if subjected to ridicule in the town square. The Internet is like a Tower of Babel, fragmented and distracting the public rather than bringing them together. As with Google, the Internet does not contribute to the public's "making sense" or achieving what E. O. Wilson calls "the consilience of knowledge." I funded the Earth Intelligence Network in 2006 when I had a company and a good income, and we created the below concept for empowering the public to make all decisions based on all available information, in essence enabling informed anarchy able to by-pass and make moot the government. Until we can create such capabilities, ideally within an open source everything ecology, we will continue to be expendable commoditized farm animals instead of free and equal human beings.

Daily Bell: Why do these elite interests persist in promoting such scams as global warming, central banking and the "war on terror"? Is it to continually panic everyone via ongoing scarcity propaganda?

Robert Steele: I am not sure I would blame the elites (the 1%) for all of this. Certainly I oppose the prevalence of the scarcity paradigm, and would point out that a major enabling feature of that is the lack of true cost economics. We allow entire societies to be constructed on the premise that we can have large urban areas far removed from mega-agriculture, and that all the toxins and pathologies of both systems are irrelevant to our choices.

I hold the mainstream media, and particularly the broadcast channels, in high disdain. These people are puppets on crack, spouting crap non-stop. There is nothing useful about most of their work. At the same time, I don't think much of Google, Facebook, or Twitter, and zeroed out my accounts at all three – a waste of time, generally.

Where we need to get to is a combination of pure democracy, delegated democracy (delegate vote to specific individuals for specific topics) and a World Brain with Global Game that allows everyone to play themselves on all issues all the time – or delegate or opt-out as they please. What does not work is abdication of our citizenship duties to hierarchies that are corrupt to the bone and stupid to boot.

Daily Bell: Why are so many of these memes scarcity based? Turns out there is likely plenty of food, plenty of water, plenty of air and plenty of room for people to live in.

Robert Steele: This is a useful place to subject the Libertarian philosophy to some scrutiny. The reality is that most publics have been trapped in urban slums and rural wastelands for centuries, and that government, far from being helpful, has been an instrument of the 1% in enclosing the commons, privatizing profit, and externalizing costs. A major aspect of any foreign policy I might devise would be to help foreign publics clean up their governments, eradicate corruption, eliminate debt, acquire free energy and clean water, and generally live happily OVER THERE. I want to end all incentives for illegal immigrants, while eventually – after we achieve full employment – opening the doors to qualified immigrants.

Scarcity exists because we are coming off centuries in which the fencing of the commons for the profit of the few has been official government policy, and citizens have been too ignorant, cowed, or otherwise incapacitated to see that they are being screwed over and over by this combination of a corrupt government and banking that Matt Taibbi calls "Griftopia." You are absolutely right, there is no scarcity except where we choose to make it so as a matter of policy.

Personally – and I cover some of this in my marching orders for the Coalition Cabinet at We the People Reform Coalition – I would like to migrate the entire country back toward an agrarian-centered nation of small communities with at most one or two medium-sized cities in each state, all with very clear sustainability networks for energy, water and food.

Daily Bell: Are these memes – circulated via the mainstream media – intended to incite fear and distress among the larger population? We call the resultant elite sponsored solutions "directed history." Is that a good term, in your view? Are most wars and economic difficulties pre-planned in a sense to generate the requisite result of further concentrating power and authority?

Robert Steele: I like the term "directed history." I also admire the work of John Taylor Gatto and his discussion of how the Carnegie-Rockefeller focus on public education was precisely to create subservient individuals willing to sit still for 18 years absorbing directed history and not learning to think for themselves. I believe that humanity is subject to historical cycles that are defined by how civilizations grow and collapse, generally when they fail to adapt or they concentrate wealth to such as degree that they kill their own Golden Goose, the public.

We must end the ability of any government to declare war, and fund war, in our name without our consent. We do this by embracing information technology and the will of the people to demand that all legislation and all major decisions be subject to public ballot, by embracing the APT Tax, and by not voting to fund wars and corporate subsidies and all the other means by which the public treasury is looted.

Daily Bell: A few more questions occur to us … People generally distrust former CIA agents because the CIA apparently really never lets anyone leave. When someone does leave, it's only if they agree to promote a "limited hangout" of some sort. How can you assure people that the CIA really booted you and that you are not working for them in some capacity?

Robert Steele: CIA is a bureaucracy within which the spies are a tiny minority. The larger body consists of administrators, logisticians, security personnel, analysts, scientific and technical personnel, and so on. Clandestine case officers are the smallest class. Generally, unless arrangements are made for your clearances to be held by CIA so that you can continue to be "on call," or your clearances are held by a contractor (70% of the IC money including CIA's goes to contractors, which is very wrong), you actually do go out into the cold. I am still under a lifetime secrecy agreement that is moot because I remember no secrets and certainly no identifies of any of the hundreds of clandestine agents I recruited or handled; and I still honor my obligation to have the CIA's Publications Review Board (PRB) examine both books with secret intelligence content, and my resumes, all of which were recently redone and approved in detail by the PRB.

What I have done with my life, and what I have said on the record, could never in a million years have been imagined by CIA or directed as a long-term operation. Snowden is another matter – there is a wonderfully interesting school of thought that says that Snowden is a CIA attack on NSA orchestrated by Booz Allen where the best of the former CIA leaders have gone into residence.

On balance, I recommend one look at the facts, study possible outcomes, and draw their own conclusions. Certainly I want to cut NSA to a tenth of its present size; I want to restore the DCI position and refocus CIA on President Harry Truman's original intent (a centralized integrator of information, not a collector of clandestine information in its own right); and I want to create a Smart Nation within which CIA is the dominant element within the secret world, but not the dominant element when an Open Source Agency exists and can answer 90% of the need for intelligence using ethical open sources and methods.

Daily Bell: The most obvious limited hangout is one that seeks to avert the natural results of what we call the Internet Reformation – which would generate independent thinking and solutions arising out of "spontaneous order." Most of these would be "private" solutions or local community ones. People suspicious of your agenda would suggest that you are trying to resuscitate big-government solutions to combat the effects of free-marketing thinking – solutions, in other words, that seem "small" but still rely on Leviathan for implementation.

Robert Steele: The easiest way to prove my bona fides on this point is to point to my reviews of books on secession. Readers should distinguish between the idea of an open source agency perhaps resident in government because it makes sense in this time and place to put it there – and a local, national, or global commitment to the meme and mind-set that is Open Source Everything. Any town that commits to OSE, installs its own dark fiber, creates its own localized renewable energy, water purification, and free public wi-fi, is going to be a stronger town. If I had to do the last 25 years over again, I would do it from Maine or New Hampshire (I like Vermont, but I want to do this by the sea), and build the model from the ground up. Others can and should take this for action and consider doing OSE one town at a time.

The single most important attribute of the OSE philosophy is that it is affordable, inter-operable, and scalable. It enables information-sharing and community sense-making and wealth creation far beyond anything that is possible with the mixed bag of generally mediocre capabilities offered today by IBM, Google, or Microsoft, to name just three.

Daily Bell: We have the same problem with the LETS systems that you referred to. LETS systems are basically sponsored by the UN – and thus we are suspicious of them and their centralized book-keeping. Response?

Robert Steele: Local Exchange Trading Systems (LETS) is not something I have been following. I do have some strong opinions about the corruption and ineffectiveness of all international assistance, not just the UN but the Red Cross and all others. As a general rule, less than 20% of all donated money gets to the end-point, and more often than not no more than 5%. In Bono's case it is documented at 1%. This happens for various reasons. Most often, the UN keeps 20% for "overhead" and then begins out-sourcing the aid downwards across UK, Turkish, and other intermediaries, each of whom take 20% off for "overhead," with the result being that at best 10-20% of the money reaches the victims or intended beneficiaries, and all too often, in very badly managed form that might as well not have been sent at all.

Below is a graphic in which I show how we can cut the UN and most international charities completely out of the loop, with direct giving enabled by the Internet.

Daily Bell: We are suspicious of the anti-usury movement because people like Ellen Brown and others want to retain central banking so long as it is run by "the people." And we don't believe in throwing people in jail for charging a rate of interest. Response?

Robert Steele: At a fundamental level, I consider usury to be a form of legalized crime, in part because 90% of the money being lent does not exist – the bank is being allowed to coin money – and in part this whole process opens up multiple other criminal angles. In my own case, I borrowed $14,000 from Advanta, as a small business loan to my small business, with $1% guaranteed for the life of the loan. At some point I had a late payment and the rate changed from 1% to 29.9%. I paid the $14,000 and the 1%, and told Avanta to piss off on the rest. Later what they were doing became illegal, and they had to declare bankruptcy.

What I see a need for is community-based banking in which any credit that is created is based strictly on local needs and such interest as may be agreed upon rebounds to the benefit of the community. On balance I despise banks because they are large criminal organizations with very strong lobbyists and a captive Congress. I would rather see all money in community-based credit unions, and all loans made on the basis of local need. I would absolutely forbid any cross-over from lending to speculation and "investment."

Daily Bell: We are suspicious of Occupy Wall Street because the problems the world faces have little to do with the average "millionaire" or even "billionaire." The problems of the world stem fundamentally from a power elite that apparently controls monopoly central banking and through that control has asserted dominion over corporate, military, educational and political venues. Do you disagree with this paradigm?

Robert Steele: You are suspicious of Occupy because the Koch brothers have paid a great deal of money to foster that suspicion. I completely agree that the average millionaire and billionaire are generally blameless – they have excelled at gaming the system and understanding that Wall Street makes its money on the IPO and then dumps all the risk to the average investor. I totally agree with your general paradigm and hope the day comes when the Koch brothers will assign their $3 million an hour interest earnings to public causes.

Occupy Wall Street is a populist movement, and that is a good thing. It is a non-violent populist movement and that is a better thing. I would observe that over 7,000 Occupy protestors went to jail as the militarized law enforcement network kicked in on behalf of the 1% instead of the 99% — to date a tiny handful of bankers have gone to jail – no one of any real importance – and the public is still being screwed by the City of London and manipulated LIBOR rates. No one in the UK has gone to jail that I know of.

From where I sit, Libertarians should embrace the Greens and Occupy, and create a strategy for weaning the Independents that are organized by, a cover organization for Michael Bloomberg. You want to be suspicious of someone, take a closer look at them. From where I sit, they engage in a great deal of activity that I consider "busy work," avoiding the central issue of our time, Electoral Reform.

Occupy, if revitalized, has the ability to jerk every senator and representative to attention. I failed to focus them with my six-minute presentation in 2011 that went viral on YouTube, but I am absolutely certain that if the Libertarian Party got its act together under a committed candidate for the presidency ready to spend two years on the campaign trail, that we can revitalize and redirect Occupy to the mutual benefit of all individual citizens who have been disenfranchised by a two-party tyranny that has written all of us off – especially Libertarians who have been "played" into supporting the Republican extremists while receiving no tangible benefits at all in the past 20 years.

Daily Bell: Is it wise to support such movements as Occupy Wall Street when the blame cast is so broad that its obvious goal is to create a kind of French Revolution that will allow for a new political system that will turn out to be no better than the old one? In other words, OWS is another false flag intended to substitute an authoritarian solution – created via chaos – for the current evolution of independent thought and spontaneous communal order. Your thoughts?

Robert Steele: I don't see this. If anything, OWS is vastly more Libertarian than are the Libertarians. Wiggling fingers will always be synonymous for me with crowd ineffectiveness. They took kum-ba-ya hand-holding to a whole new level, and imploded precisely because they refused to move beyond individual anarchy.

At We the People Reform Coalition are posted a few very specific ideas for taking back this country. Electoral Reform is first, followed by a Coalition Cabinet, a balanced budget, a commitment to full employment, and the elimination of all taxes in favor of the APT Tax whose level is set by the public, not the government. That's the best I can do – and not a single other Presidential candidate was willing to engage, perhaps because none of this is actually focused on fixing this country; they just want to get nominated, elected, raise money and settle for whatever consolation prize they might ultimately qualify for if they shut up and support the anointed winner.

Daily Bell: People may look on your solutions in much the same light, especially since you seem to endorse OWS, LETS and even the anti-usury movement – all of which seem to us heavily influenced by elite third parties. Is this fair?

Robert Steele: Is there such a thing as an elite third party? I know of only two parties owned by the elite – the Republican and Democrat Parties – with the Libertarian Party being the third most likely to be considered "captured" as a form of controlled opposition.

Right now the central fact of our political economy is that a majority of the voting public is disenfranchised and the two-party tyranny is a whole-owned action arm for Wall Street and the City of London and behind them, the 300 families led by the Rothschilds. I am not an advocate for any particular point of view – my "root" demand is the restoration of one man – one vote, Electoral Reform. I have a very high faith in the intelligence and integrity of the average American when empowered. Although I am troubled by the pathetic ignorance that characterizes most citizens today, I believe they will respond to inspiration, seize opportunities when presented, and ultimately be central to restoring authentic democracy in the USA.

As I have said more than once, there is nothing wrong with America the Beautiful and the Republic that cannot be fixed, and fixed quickly, through the restoration of the integrity of our electoral process and hence of our governance process.

Daily Bell: Why not simply lobby for the removal of monopoly central banking and judicially enforced corporate personhood? If you removed these two elements of Leviathan, modern Western authoritarianism would collapse and people would be subsequently empowered. Isn't this a simpler and more effective solution than trying to rebuild and repurpose centralized government? Isn't it better to argue for freedom than for reduced authoritarianism?

Robert Steele: I totally support end the Fed and the overturn of Citizens United and all past vestiges of corporate personhood. However, removing money in the negative sense does not address all of the other conditions that enable the few to screw over the many. In the electoral process, for example, removing money does not overcome the fact that only Democrats and Republicans can get on most ballots.

Below is my matrix for predicting revolution with the existing pre-conditions of revolutions as they exist in the USA today, in red. We need a political and financial action plan to take on all these challenges.

Daily Bell: Aren't the best societies the kind that Jefferson argued for – semi anarcho-capitalist communities within an agrarian-republic paradigm where people are in control of the elements of their own survival?

Robert Steele: Yes. On this I agree completely. Indeed, a major failing of the Industrial Era is that it broke the relationship that kinship and cottage industries had in the sense of trust. The Industrial Era commoditized human beings, isolated them from their home networks, and made trust a sideshow instead of the main event. Lionel Tiger discusses this in a book entitled The Manufacture of Evil.

Daily Bell: Is marijuana going to be legalized around the world? Is there a plan to do so, and if so what happens to CIA clandestine drug profits, if any. How about all drugs? Will all drugs eventually be legalized and regulated out of the UN?

Robert Steele: Yes, marijuana will be legalized. When I spoke for the filming of "The Last White Hope," I said that marijuana is at the seam between public common sense being in charge, and government at the point of a gun "because I say so." I cannot speak to other drugs being legalized, but I do believe that a major cause of drug addiction is the futile lifestyle that authoritarian governments and unethical corporations impose on the public. Life is supposed to be fun. CIA is not the only one running drugs into the USA; so are the FBI and DEA, as well as the Mossad. When I refer to those organizations running drugs I mean elements within them, not the institutions themselves. This is – again – why I believe that ruthless secret counterintelligence is the flip side of open source everything. We have got to clean house, restore state sovereignty, nullify at least 60% of all federal regulations if not more, and get back in the business of being a thriving nation with a robust, kick-ass population that is fit, thoughtful and engaged.

I do not see drugs regulated by the UN, or anything else regulated by the UN. The UN is bureaucracy on steroids, one-third spies, one-third worthless relatives given sinecures and one-third very hard working people who really care. I would like to fund the United Nations Open-Source Decision-Support Information Network (UNODIN), and once it is operational, cut two-thirds to three-quarters of all UN positions and turn the UN into a global information and educational service, nothing more.

Daily Bell: Thanks for considering all this and responding to it. Anything else you want to add?

Robert Steele: I am unemployed. Although I have been found qualified and referred for many senior executive positions, including DoD Inspector General for Intelligence, the reality is that both government and industry are configured to hire plow horses, not thoroughbreds. The unemployment rate is 22.4% and in my demographic closer to 40% (and I have no pensions). So I would be glad if this interview led to some tangible alternatives.

If I could do anything at all that I wanted, it would be to create the Open Source Agency, whether in government or not, at $2-3 billion year consisting of $10 million a year to support a global citizen intelligence network for each of 200-300 countries, topics, and issues, local to global. The OSA, would among other things, keep every political candidate honest by empowering local citizens with the knowledge needed to evaluate every person, every fact, every assertion, in real time.

Failing that, I would love to be funded modestly to spend the next two years crisscrossing the country in my 1994 MGB campaigning for electoral reform and the Libertarian Plus nomination for 2016. Ron Paul let the Republicans steal the nomination from him, and I don't see Rand Paul being able to step up but if he did I would support him provided he embraced the ideas at We the People Reform Coalition.

If I cannot be president (mostly to bring the balanced perspective that all others lack) and we had an honest President and an honest Congress, my dream job would as the first Secretary of Education, Intelligence, and Research, essentially the third vice president, with the president focused on the global engagement and the vice president focused on nurturing the commonwealth. Together we would create a Smart Nation, a safe nation, in which transparency, truth, and trust restored America the Beautiful.

Daily Bell: Thanks again for taking on this interview at short notice.

Books by Robert Steele

First link is at Amazon; second link is free online.

De Jong, Ben, Weiss Platje and Robert David Steele (eds.) (2003). PEACEKEEPING INTELLIGENCE: Emerging Concepts for the Future. Oakton, VA: OSS International Press.


Steele, Robert David (2000). ON INTELLIGENCE: Spies and Secrecy in an Open World. Fairfax, VA: Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association.

ON INTELLIGENCE__web PDF (520 pages)

Steele, Robert David (2002). THE NEW CRAFT OF INTELLIGENCE: Personal, Public, & Political. Oakton, VA: OSS International Press.


Steele, Robert David (2006). INFORMATION OPERATIONS: All Information in All Languages All the Time. Oakton, VA: OSS International Press.


Steele, Robert David (2006). THE SMART NATION ACT: Public Intelligence in the Public Interest. Oakton, VA: OSS International Press.

THE SMART NATION ACT__web PDF (270 pages)

Steele, Robert David (2008). ELECTION 2008: Lipstick on the Pig. Oakton, VA: Earth Intelligence Network.

ELECTION 2008__web docs (200 pages)

Steele, Robert David (2010). INTELLIGENCE FOR EARTH: Clarity, Diversity, Integrity & Sustainability. Oakton, VA: Earth Intelligence Network.

INTELLIGENCE for EARTH__web PDF (300 pages)

Steele, Robert David (2012). THE OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING MANIFESTO: Transparency, Truth & Trust. Berkeley, CA: North Atlantic Books/Evolver Editions.

OSE @ Pirate Bay (At Your Own Risk)

Tovey, Mark (ed.) (2008). COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE: Creating a Prosperous World at Peace. Oakton, VA: Earth Intelligence Network.


After Thoughts

Again, we thank Robert Steel for taking this interview on such short notice and doing a thorough job. Much was done via email, but the result is certainly convincing. Mr. Steele has certainly thought through his subject and apparently sacrificed a career for his passion.

Of course, as with the article that spawned this interview, there are points that free-market thinkers would find unpersuasive in his arguments and solutions. But others are certainly convincing, as is the passion he seems to bring to his arguments.

A more transparent and smaller government is certainly better than what we have now and Mr. Steele seems determined to promote that as best he can.

Economist Gary North commented recently on the same Guardian article that we analyzed last week, which is how we got to know Mr. Steele. (He wrote in to respond.) We think this interview is a clearer offering of what Mr. Steele has in mind.

Dr. North pointed out many of the same issues that we did regarding Mr. Steele's perspective. Most importantly, Dr. North noted exactly what we have been explaining for the past few years: This Internet Reformation is testimony to FA Hayek's spontaneous order. There is nothing, at root, that is organized about it. There is nothing much about it therefore that can be "stopped" … at least not in the short term.

Yes, the power elite is trying everything. Mostly, they are trying to "organize" it in order to control it. But like the changes that occurred after the Gutenberg press, the changes rippling through the West (and the world) as a result of Internet information are both unpredictable and decentralizing.

This is the point that Gary North makes most strongly. Changes from the Internet are breaking up political systems and upending the social promotions that have provided the glue to keep nation-states together.

Nothing of this magnitude has ever happened before. The Internet has given the power elite many invasive tools, but as we have predicted its biggest impact will likely be in the decoupling of whole populations from the "directed history" of the past three centuries.

This is, of course, incredibly threatening to those who have built and promoted the current system. But there is nothing much they can do about it except to seek to get ahead of it via false flags and deceptive promotions.

Yet … it is probably too big for that. The CIA would do well to listen to Mr. Steele while people are still prepared to accept the notion of "national security." So would others in government. As government credibility continues to plunge along with the credibility of its handmaiden, the mainstream media, there will eventually come a proverbial tipping point.

If people see no significant and credible evolutions in the authoritarian instrumentalities now purporting to represent them (and right now those operating government are moving toward more repression not less), they will turn away. They will do so because they have ceased to believe in what these facilities are proposing.

This will probably happen anyway. And it will happen, as we have often explained, one person at a time. Human action is an individual affair. Efforts of the power elite to consolidate this process via top-down social media control (Facebook) or faux Tea Party movements won't stop it.

It can be organized, on the surface anyway, but it cannot be controlled. Mr. Steele, of course, is proposing elements of control but at least they seem to be generated from sincere concern about the direction of current Western history.

Mr. Steele's vision may not be yours but it has elements of innovation and certainly of passion. Like us, he sees a passing of the Age. He has sensed that, more than the spy-masters who have apparently jettisoned him. (Please keep that in mind when posting feedbacks.) Thanks again to Mr. Steele for this interesting and thorough presentation.

Posted in Asset Protection Strategies, EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
  • Bill Ross

    well, as I pay very close attention to this interview, before I dissect the particular points, initial impression (engineering perspective) is why so complex and, appears to be replacing one system with another, and weakest link is EVERYBODY must “buy in” (code: force dissenters). Why not KISS (Keep it simple, stupid):

    @DB: Thanks for quick response in interviewing RS, fascinating comments by him other day. Of course, I have been expecting, for some time for elites to send some sort of competent representative, to fight the “DB Phenomena”, on your own turf. Is this him? dunno, but I suspect, if so, he may come away from this encounter as a “traitor”. Nothing and nobody can stop the truth from “setting us free”.

    • Ho ho ho. I have a lot of scar tissue. Do your homework. I and all those I work with embody our motto, “the truth at any cost lowers all other costs.” That is why the subtitle of the latest book is “transparency, truth, & trust.”

      • Bill Ross

        scar tissue?

        truth is arrived at by pondering / classifying / sorting alternative possibilities through the lens of natural law. I made no allegations, just pondering, considering possibilities and will not until proof is at hand.

        And, please take a page out of Wendy McElroys playbook. You will be most effective in expressing / selling your POV if you participate in this forum, respond to valid points and demonstrate that you are also a “higher form of life” as you alleged DB to be the other day.

        • higher form of life? please.

          I am in the process of loading this interview to Phi Beta Iota and restoring all the links that were deleted from the body to conform to local preferences. I will follow the Q&A with Disqus and respond as invited.

  • Danny B

    Bill, I’m not sure that KISS is an option in a society of specialists. I will comment after more feedback is posted. I do have one link to share that is a bit ominous.

    • Bill Ross

      “society of specialists”

      induced myopia, different assumptions rationalized to “no common ground”, contradictory POV’s. Beware “experts”.

      When I claim “expert” status, on any point, It is only after I have all my natural law ducks lined up to quack dissenters “to death”

  • Bill Ross

    DB: “that “experts” don’t exist because no one can predict a future filled with independent actors”

    RS: “There are two flaws in the Austrian vision. The first stems from a lack of whole systems thinking”

    as I noted: devise a new, improved system. I, as a systems design engineer design systems where I give electrical / mechanical elements “no choice” but to act according to their nature, trapped in an environment (system) where the carrots / sticks of natural law say “it is MY way”. Even if I were to discover that my subjects (electrons…) FEEL that I am enslaving them, well, it would TFB. I am the system GOD. This is how elites / the devisers of current systems feel about US when they manipulate us with unequal carrots / sticks under corrupt (rule of man) system / law.

    I am telling you flat out, with the full weight of my professional opinion / experience: THERE IS NO WAY that self-volitional, free individuals can, for very long exist under an externally imposed system that suppresses their individually weighted self-interests. The ONLY “system” that inherently free mankind is able to long term tolerate is systems / rules that they and their voluntary chosen associations / trading partners have MUTUALLY agreed to. Such ad-hoc voluntary associations can / will associate with other associations / groups in voluntary trade associations under the REAL “social contract”, forming a larger civilization:

    and, it is the long rationalized away (by predators on the bench) “rule of law”, as opposed to “rule of corrupt man, over other men” that used to protect / allow the existence of civilization:

    OR ELSE (we are living it):

    The only “reason” this issue is so pernicious is that wannabe “gods of the system” want the perks of the unearned / unproductivity.

    BTW: The more complex proposed “solutions” are, the higher the probability of “No Sale”. Now, “get outa my face and way” is VERY salable.

    • Chootee

      But what is this “lack of whole systems thinking”. That’s a little vague, but sounds to me like his problem with Austrianism is that economics is NOT collectivized, but individualized, maximum benefit for the maximum amount of people naturally occurs in free market situations with open access to economic opportunity. NO ONE HUMAN can do better than the free market and equal economic opportunity in creating wealth and in fairness (not necessarily equality).Perhaps Mr Steele can define exactly what he means by “lack of whole systems thinking”. Sound bogus to me.

  • Harry


    “No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You win a war by making the other dumb bastard die for his country.”

    – General George S. Patton

    “I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me.”

    – General George S. Patton

    “Moral Courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men”.

    – General George S. Patton

    The murder of Patton is known for a fact, known for the very simple reason that an agent of the well-known OSS (Office Of Strategic Services), an American Military Spy named Douglas Bazata, A JEW of Lebanese origin, announced it in front of
    450 invited guests, nearly all high-ranking ex-members of the OSS at the Hilton Hotel in Washington, DC the 25th of September, 1979.

    Bazata stated, word-for-word:

    “For diverse political reasons, many extremely high-ranking persons hated Patton. I know who killed him because I am the one who was hired to do it. Ten thousand dollars. General William J. ‘Wild Bill’ Donovan himself, director Of O.S.S, entrusted ne with the mission. I set up the ‘accident.’ Since he didn’t die in the accident, he was kept in isolation in the hospital, where he was
    killed with a cyanide injection.”

    The tragic fate of General George S. Patton convinced other ‘colleagues’ and their honorable ‘compatriots’ of the uselessness of fighting against the ‘War Powers’ That Be.

    “Espionage is not a nice thing, nor are the methods employed exemplary. Neither are demolition bombs nor Poison Gas… …

    We face an enemy who believes one of his chief weapons is the fact that none but he will employ terror. But we will turn terror against him…”.

    – General William J. ‘Wild Bill’ Donovan

    OSS/CIA/FBI the SCUM of the EARTH!

    They killed JFK, RFK, JFK Jr, MLK, & thousands of other brave men, including Michael Hastings.

  • Svejk

    Naturally I have some reservations concerning the authenticity of Mr. Steele. He is gracious to provide answers and content on such a wide range of topics. Likewise the DB shows class in accommodating him.

    There were a few things that jumped out at me. Open Source hardware for example, has only existed as pie in the sky. Sure there are some development boards available, but few if any of these have been created by a community effort. Usually they are funded by the chip manufacturer. Again the main components are closed, but the board design is open. In practice this just means that manufacturers can print the boards without licenses and populate them with the chip designer’s products. tried to do some open chips, but in practice this just means loading their sources onto a proprietary FPGA. It is progress surely, but also mostly hype. The results fall short of FSF/Stallman’s lofty goals. There have been more than enough band wagoners jumping aboard the Open Source movement. Sometimes one wonders how a term has come to become so diluted.

    Steele’s insights into 9/11 seem to be a place where we are on the same page. Here his views have a definite value in my eyes. He speaks from within his element.

    DB rightly asks the obvious question: Why do we even need an intelligence organization? If people want to share knowledge, let them. Individuals move towards open source when they see the benefits.

    1. Allow the state and its actors to collapse into obscurity.
    2. Create and foster an environment where people willingly share relevant information through your own participation in whichever info-sphere.
    3. Enjoy the benefits of increased information sharing.

    I fail to see where state actions or electoral participation is required to achieve the above 3 points. As this website has frequently observed, the process is already underway.

    • I have been treated graciously by Anthony and DB and I appreciate that. Open Source Hardware is alive and well, including a very cool open source car. I have published a longer list of opens at For a while I did a daily newsletter tracking across the opens but no one was interested so I stopped.

      Being absolutist about the State (government) being unnecessary is in my view just as wrong as saying we do not need academics, civil society, commerce, law enforcement, media, the military, or non-government/non-profit endeavors.

      Anarchy is a flawed concept in part because it is synonymous with information asymmetries. The whole really is greater than the sum of the parts, and that seems to be where Anarchists and Libertarians and I part ways. You can wait for a hundred years to see if everything will collapse around you, or you can lead a revolution that restores public agency. To do the latter, some accommodation is going to be required. Naturally the choice is up to all of you.

      • Chootee

        If you are referring to the lack of intelligence gathering in the phrase “information assymmetries”, these could be addressed privately by people providing information gathering services for a fee, such as journalism should be. Seeing how the USG has been caught with their pants down in various intelligence related incidents, and seems to be culpable in creating false flags and regime toppling more than intelligence gathering, I doubt that this would be a problem.

        “Being absolutist about the State (government) being unnecessary is in my view just as wrong as saying we do not need academics, civil society, commerce, law enforcement, media, the military, or non-government/non-profit endeavors.”
        Some things are just true, disparaging them as “absolutist” is illogical. We KNOW the fruit of statism, we know the nature of men, thanks to the Austrians we understand economics. Denying these things is irrational. Denying the necessity of having other (power grabbing sociopaths) humans rule over us has nothing to do with the value academics, commerce, etc. It does not necessarily follow.

      • Svejk

        Again, I must give credit where it is due, because it takes considerable patience to open yourself up to scrutiny on a public forum. Thanks for participating.

        Some of this disagreement may be due to our differing experiences. Not everyone shares your views about the value of institutions. Some of us have been maligned by the state and its various institutions. While you may be able to point towards a long career and several valuable experiences while participating within the state, others may view it differently.

        Where I recognize that my non-participation may reinforce my perceptions in regard to the state collapsing into obscurity, I can only hope that you appreciate how your experiences within the state paradigm have shaped your views on the necessity of the state.

        This is not to say that I pretend to hold some objective hold on truth or believe one view is more relevant than the other. To the contrary, it is because I value your perspective that I take the time to interact. Along with that, there is a certain reasonable and limited expectation of reciprocity. Blanket dismissals of absolutism fall somewhat short of that ideal.

        Tyranny would be using force to require my participation in something I do not value. If I am an absolutist, this is something I can absolutely not accept. I will always absolutely oppose tyranny and other infringements of my person. You are mistaken if you think this is something which is open for pragmatic negotiation. You are welcome to whichever form of state you please, but you can not force others to consent. This is integral to the Open Source philosophy, which I will elaborate on presently.

        The phrase Open Source means the GNU packages or similar distributions. That connotation is irrefutable. The community is legendary for its zealotry and absolutism. There is a strong argument which claims that Open Source could not have existed without such a commitment to principle.

        Something like the Linux kernel which I can freely modify or create my own device drivers for, can not be compared to a kit car that requires a certain manufacturer’s drive train. Open Source Ecology is another interesting site along the same lines. Again, their wiki is filled with Malthusian nonsense, hype, and no real delivery of the product.

        Words have meaning, words ideally mean actions, and the value of language is not lost on me. Open Source means freely available source code. The revolution of Open Source is only possible because unlike other industries, software development is truly possible at the cottage level. There is no tangible product to be interrupted by the traditional methods of the state and its paymasters. Yet, software does create a tangible value which can be realized in trade.

        Open Source exists from the bottom up. There may be arbiters, but they exist with the consent and graces of the contributors. When viewed from this sense, it seems as if many have co-opted the language. It is not Open Source if I can not fork it and provide my version for free to the public. Open Source is incompatible with an entity like the state. The state defines its self via borders, citizenship, national identity, national animosity, and a myriad of other exclusionary, gate-keeping concepts. Open Source speaks to the irrelevance of gate keepers.

        Open Source does not depend on contributions from the state or any other institutions. Open Source exists because the contributors recognize the value of sharing. When the value of collaboration exceeds other interests, Open Source will follow.

        To bring it back into the context of this discussion: If people want to share information, they are welcome. If you want to facilitate this and are as passionate as you appear, you need not wait for funding or government sanction. You can start now by creating an outlet where people can share the information you deem relevant. If what you propose is as groundbreaking as you believe, informed persons will volunteer their efforts. Otherwise, I have doubts in regards to your use of the term Open Source.

      • Povilas

        “Anarchy is a flawed concept in part because it is synonymous with information asymmetries. ”

        Is this an observation of anarchy beeing flawed, and then an effort to partially explain why?
        If so, how can something which has never yet been implemented, be flawed?
        Anarchy is a concept, a mindset. It works for me in practice, I can foresee some actions by authorities and act accordingly. Approaching corporations and humans in different ways makes my life easier. Maybe some of TDB readers have the same experience?
        If this is a statement that some part of anarchy is flawed, can the author be more specific? How can information asymmetry exist in a trully free market?
        Then again, if there is a trully free market somewhere, please tell me- I will move there. Actually, this is exactly what anarchy is about.
        Or maybe it is just my English failing me, since my native language being Lithuanian, and that prevents me from fully comprehending the text?

  • Bill Ross

    RS: “What I do is get everyone’s point of view on the table and hash out a sensible accommodation”

    On any issue there are “stakeholders”. Suspect your “sensible accommodation” POV considers entrenched powers who have said power purely because of inequality integrated under corrupt law. Thus, the “accommodation” will include as opposed to exclude / smite the “vested interests” that have brought civilization to current “sorry state”.

    On ANY issue, the only relevant POV’s are held by the parties directly affected (subject to equality of treatment / opportunity by law) and, possibly a consideration of externalities such as pollution which could be safely neglected (otherwise, risk biased experts with flawed theories opinions making “bad choices”) if tort law were effective AND honest (cause damage -> compensate victims) existed.

    It is ONLY because tort law is ineffective in dealing with those who cause harm that we even have the “pre-emptive justice” “argument” based on flawed theories that we “must all be restricted / enslaved” lest “harm” (speculative prediction of future) occur.

  • Bill Ross

    RS: “services of common concern where it makes sense to organize community solutions be they local, state, or national ”

    and, by doing so, create a monopoly that, by the self interests of the “employees” (service providers) will do what all monopolies (without competition) do, by nature: increase costs / reduce services until the costs are all that are provided to the payers.

    The deeper I get in this interview, the more disappointed at lack of insight displayed by RS. Hopes dashed. I’m taking a few hours off, to ponder the glory of “Libertarian Absolutism” and the inevitable war between the sophists and realists.

    The good news is that if RS is one of the “best and brightest” of the “intelligence industry”, well, they will be overwhelmed far easier than I believed.

    • Danny B

      Bill, you’re missing a big facet in your anti-organizational rant. It has to do with distribution and scale. I have 10 acres in the Coquille River valley. Suppose that I ask bids to clear the land. My payment stays in the valley. If Coquille hires a teacher, the payment stays in the valley. Suppose that local GOV floats a bond and builds a dam to help agriculture. If it is built by local labor with locally produced materials, the local area benefits in a general way.
      Imagine if big GOV had to depend on the surplus wealth generated by the Amish.
      Spontaneous organization can only go just so far in a non-hunter gatherer society. Security of a society advances when individuals act in unison to insulate the whole body against detrimental acts of nature. NOBODY can stand 3 watches by themselves. If we want the weak members of society (children) to survive, we must have some level of organization.
      We organize into a society to protect the weak and to increase productivity.
      Done on a small scale, it is beneficial. Organization is not the problem, increase in scale is.

      • Bill Ross

        If the services are desired, at market appraised costs. Let those who desire the service co-operate and choose / pay a free market service provider. No monopolies and, services are paid for by those who desire them and the “service providers” can be easily turfed and replaced by better “at a whim”. That’s all. Solve the problems without Leviathan. I can see elites falling back to accepting a 5% state “solution”. The KNOW we will lose vigilance and it will again bloat, placing all at survival risk.

        It was not an “anti-organizational” rant. It was an imposed monopoly organization rant.

  • Not another bad hair for you, is it, Bill Ross? Are not reading between the lines to realise that the restless natives are a real phantom force of smarter utility than anything else which is ever going to be available and/or in the pay of a status quo stuck in the past and trying to hang on to plundered booty?

    Or are you sensing or fearing that former CIA spy, Robert Steele, is still CIA and a novel agent of entrapment and shill/a dirty rotten stinkin’ mole creeping around in the virtual domain? You know, the way that the FBI create enemies to bust and justify their existence in a field in which they are not fit for purpose or equipped with the necessary intelligence to infiltrate and influence a new digital wave band of brothers with a mind for remote change with a remote command and control chain of intangible leader ships cruising anonymised forward battle stations?

    Stranger things have happened, surely?

    • Bill Ross

      All of the above. It’s not that I am paranoid, just that they are out to “get me” (and all of us)

      I intend to be open-minded re RS, just as I speculate he may be an elite rep, he may also be a disgruntled “slave of the system” who will also be instrumental in “slaying the beast” (whether they do “as ordered” or, oppose), or, he may be “as presented” dunno yet.

      Do know that ANYONE with an objective brain cannot be here @DB and not take away something worthwhile.

  • The Corporatocracy: How the Corporate Welfare State Divides and Conquers

    A small, readily-identifiable ruling oligarchy that no serious political observer denies the existence of is able to keep the public from attacking it by dividing them along ideological grounds so that the public spends all their time arguing over definitions and splitting doctrinal hairs instead of attacking the commonly acknowledged enemy. You couldn’t ask for a more perfect system of control.

    06/05/2014 5,000 Years of History Shows that Mass Spying Is Always Aimed at Crushing Dissent

    The Terrorism Statistics Every American Needs to Hear, May 19, 2014

    Calm Down … You Are Much More Likely to Be Killed By Boring, Mundane Things than Terrorism McClatchy reported in 2010: There were just 25 U.S. noncombatant fatalities from terrorism worldwide. (The US government definition of terrorism excludes attacks on U.S. military personnel). While we don’t have the figures at hand, undoubtedly more American citizens died overseas from traffic accidents or intestinal illnesses than from terrorism.

  • Bill Ross

    RB: “You are absolutely right, there is no scarcity except where we choose to make it so as a matter of policy”

    I posit that “scarcity is policy” simply to bias (by survival necessity) people towards forceful / fraudulent methods of goal seeking as opposed to honest trade. Hand in hand with this is crippling free commerce (except favored buddies) by regulation. Keep us at basic survival, fighting each other, as opposed to the real enemies.

    The net effect is to bias public perception towards feeling insecure, needing “the state” for “protection” and, to create an environment where our criminal rulers can “blend in” with the general criminal environment.

    Now, in a “rule of law” social / intellectual paradigm:

    …these perps would be lucky to last a week. And, keeping their “proceeds of crime”, hah!

  • You can write all the words and draw all the pictures you want, but until you have a majority of NON-sociopathic representatives in the House of Representatives, all you will get is laughs from the powers that be and nothing will improve for the 99%ers. Like Wall Street loves to say, “If you’re not (represented) at the table, you’re on the menu.”

    • This is why I would like to see the Libertarians become a hub for unifying all the small parties, the independent Independents, and the sanity wings of the two-party tyranny.

  • RED

    I generally like the “tone” of his discussion (if it is sincere), however there are too many statements such as the following that concern me:

    “The Earth is a closed system and human science has advanced far beyond the ability of humans to calibrate the damage they do.”

    Really?……I find statements like this highly presumptuous and very often factually incorrect. It sounds very much like the groundwork for another “fear based promotion”.

    And of course we do have interaction with radiation from the sun, lingering gamma rays, and the occasional asteroid / comet / cosmic debris / etc. that directly impacts the earth……”Closed System”?? Does anyone see the need for the development of some “friendly technology”?.

    Yes we do need to be cognizant of our interactions with the environment on a local and worldwide basis, but a totally agrarian society (while peaceful and a nice way of life) may not develop the technology we might require to survive as a species in the future. It is the nature of (at least some of us) to be inquisitive, learn, advance and improve (……and yes without injury or at the expense of others).

    Remember, this is all quite temporary; the sun will eventually run out of hydrogen fuel and will attempt to fuse helium and heavier matter…..the earth and other planets will eventually be consumed and scorched. ………unless we can find a clever way to refuel the suns core……. or travel en masse to another compatible solar system……which will probably require some advanced technology.

    Another option is to “evolve” sufficiently so that we have “inherent control” over space and time, but that is a matter for a different forum and discussion.
    Perhaps I just have the wrong “take” and require a more in depth explanation of his remarks and intentions which is often difficult to fully articulate in an interview.

    Perhaps, all of this would be “adequately” addressed at one of his sessions where all of the True Facts and Science were “hashed out” with all “involved parties”……..but……This is one of the reoccurring “themes” of which I am somewhat suspicious.

    • Love Canal, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Monsanto, etc etc. The list is very long.

      The diseases that we have brought on ourselves, including Alzheimers / Mad Cow, obesity, etcetera, all our doing.

      • OverIt

        Really. What about bioweapons such as viruses and those that attack the immune systems (AIDS) and what about HAARP and the manmade earthquakes/tsunamis, reverse of the jet stream etc. The technocratic Pathocracy are a busy bunch.

        • I completely agree with you. Bill Gates has been caught pursuing eugenics options that include vaccines that also sterlize. Monsanto seeds are now known to sterilize mice by the third generation. HAARP remains to be properly investigated and probably shut down, climate and weather modification comes in two forms, legal insanity and legal criminality. Our entire system is cancerous. And this is a good place to point out that in a 360 degree holistic analytic approach that is rooted in true cost economics, the government would not be allowed to endorse toxic solutions, and if they did, the public would be so clued in that they would a) put the offending company out of business overnight and b) fire all the legislators that allowed the government to be stupid at public expense.

          • OverIt

            The big question is – are the same characters that created all these problems the very same group that are offering the ‘solutions’?

          • The short answer is no. I was marginalized from 1994 onwards, and virtually every intelligence reformer (not to be confused with whistleblowers) has as well. The real innovation is occuring with CrisisMappers and within the humanitarian information technology world. I just finished answering questions for a West Coast piece in which I lumped Silicon Valley together with the US Government as part of the problem — t hey are focused on money, not solutions. The best solutions are inexpensive and do not require proprietary permissions.

      • RED

        So you are highly selective in your examples……typical response…….it tells me all I need to know.

  • Hey You

    Mr. Steele expounds much and I tend to agree with most. I might agree with more of what he says (believes) if I were able to understand Mr. Steele’s concepts more fully. Perhaps he presents his ideas better in one of his books. Maybe more explanations will communicate his thoughts so persons of limited comprehension, such a I, could better understand them.
    However, what comes through seems to be making big political enties more”user friendly”. Maybe I miss Mr. Steele’s objective, but it seems that his errand is to provide better governance through better collectivist policies. My feeling is that better governance is possible only through smaller political entities. Hence, his approach seems to miss the reality that bigger is not better, regardless of the extensive directives and plans which can be contrived.

    • I hope you will call me Robert and thank everyone for their courtesy. The Open Source Everything mind-set and method is local to global and restores individual public agency. There is so much I do not know. All of this needs to be developed one village at a time.

  • Danny B

    Damn, I thought that I was going on a road trip to the mountains today. Guess not. While this article is very interesting, I’m trying to formulate a view of the bigger picture. Until we stand back and look at the entire puzzle, how can we know where to put the pieces. My organic RAM is trying to formulate this picture. I’ll just start typing and see what emerges.

    “As a general rule, the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.” – Benjamin Disraeli
    OK, economic success can be broken down into 2 paths.

    1. The builder, inventor and doer with the most complete and accurate knowledge will build the best product.

    2. A person who is not particularly creative must learn to manipulate to survive.

    Group # 1 survives by competing to be the most productive and efficient. Knowing this, China has an army of ~ 25,000 data-mining the net for non-secret processes and information. In 2011, China surpassed America in patent applications,,, though many are considered dubious;

    Group # 2 includes bankers and investors because there is little innovation that is of value in their line of work. Group # 2 MUST have information advantage to gain economic returns.

    When Robert proposes open source everything, he proposes the obliteration of information advantage. Elon Musk has just open sourced the Tesla car patents.

    In manufacturing, everybody must compete with the lowest cost producer. Transportation, warehousing and retail costs must be added. OOPs, 3D manufacturing almost eliminates most of that.

    What about finance? What about investors? Will the lowest-cost supplier of finance rule the roost?

    There is the Eurasion Economic Union,,, The Shaghai Cooperative union,,, The BRICS development Bank,,, the G77
    The industrial revolution has created so much wealth, that there is no place to store it in tangibles. It must be stored in bonds. That isn’t working out too well because fiat unbacked paper eventually disappears. The master resource is energy. We are not far from escaping the limits of carbon energy. Wealth production will soon escape the limits imposed by carbon energy. Where will this flood ( Flood, NOT tsunami ) of wealth be stored or consumed? A tsunami is too temporary
    This flood of wealth is sequestered out of reach to keep population from booming.

    If all information were available to everyone, there would be little opportunity for economic success from manipulation. If all finance worldwide were available with no State control, what would be the natural rate of interest?
    If the corporatocracy is ever successful in implementing it’s fascist-socialist dream, how can it POSSIBLY store wealth? It is impossible (on planet). Great wealth is a chimera. It is a claim on future goods and services. If the uber-wealthy can’t reasonably buy the entire world today, they certainly can’t buy it up tomorrow.
    Those who own the world can’t actually do anything with it except implement exclusion and death. They may someday choose to do something beneficial but, for the moment, exclusion and death are the name of the game.

    The larger galactic community will not let us escape this rock until we get our house in order. The universe has an over abundance of rocks, stars, gas and dust. When we finally invest in the rarest of all objects, sentient, healthy organisms, we will be allowed to interact with the larger community.

  • Earl of Isadore

    Thank you DB for the effort to quickly pull this together with RS. It’s great to also have personal info about Robert because everyone starts from where they are. I share my ideas and interact with a small circle of ordinary people, while Robert shares his insights and seeks to influence a large circle of influential and powerful primary acquaintances and has opportunity to address hundreds or thousands of decision makers. That is huge.

    Robert, I understand your ideas better now and also have references to follow up on. You refer to Babel as a negative dynamic but in fact it was a restorative which derailed a destructive process that had concentrated people together (into a polis, hence poli-tics) where they were building an unnatural infrastructure. Ordinary people were going to be manipulated and exploited for the benefit of a few.

    Embrace the babel of the internet!

    • Interesting thoughts. And I must humbly point out that I am not reaching a lot of people, The Guardian interview certainly helped inspire more interest in the ideas. I would love to see the Libertarians host an Electoral Reform Summit, invite the other six small parties (include Justice and Working Families) as well as Occupy and independent Independents, and see where it takes us. All of you in the aggregate have vastly more influence than I do, it just needed to be channeled. IMHO.

  • Earl of Isadore

    Oh, and Robert, I noticed you said “When I refer to those organizations running drugs I mean elements within them, not the institutions themselves.” But the institutions and even the “elements within” are nothing but constructs; it’s always just individuals who act. Part of the evil is that someone can put on a name tag and many people will then allow them special privileges and not hold them responsible for the things they do.

  • jackw97224

    Too long for me. But honesty is the only policy and that implies open and not secretive associations and actions. I prefer Lysander Spooner’s No Treason No. 6, The Constitution of No Authority; i.e. I don’t have a contract with the elitist, commie/socialist politicians to authorize them to treat me as their stinkin’ naggar slave and I dare say most people don’t have such contractual relationship.

    • 38 questions, I just counted them. “I did what I was told do….” and gladly so.

      • They are all above — they removed the numbers that I added after I got the question. I am quite taken with the professionalism with which I was handled, not only the thoughtfulness and extent of the questions, but also the avoidance of games or sensationizing or otherwise corrupting my answers. Bell asked the questions, I answered them, “what you see is what you get.”

        • jackw97224

          Thanks. I got it, finally.

  • Chootee

    Not impressive. We have to be “players” not “patsies”. Dislikes “absolutism” except in the case of HIS statist scheme. Return to the Constitution??? Seriously, that failed within a few decades.Why keep making trhe same mistakes hoping for different results? The GOP probably always was controlled opp., it didn’t fail because of absolutists within the party, it rapidly disintegrated in the past decade after it became obvious leftists were annointing leftist candidates and controlling the debates. Election reform?? He speaks in collectives,”we” this and “we” that. The stewardship issues about ecosystems that he claims require state control is econazi nonsense. Private ownership encourages good stewardship, people don’t destroy what they own…but politicians don’t care and enable their cronies to pollute at will from afar….but in Steeles system that won’t happen…..righht. Just as you can’t be a little bit pregnant, minarchism will inevitably advance to totalitarianism. The worst will rise to the top.

  • Webforager

    Hello Mr. Steele,
    Question. How does your open source system of government address an individual’s exercise of their ability to withdraw consent and go about their life peacefully and productively without concern of molestation by the “public”?

    • Right now we are trapped. I understand that in Florida they have now made it illegal to live “off the grid.” I do not have all the answers! Getting aggressive at the local and state levels seems to be part of the answer.

      • OverIt

        That is because the ‘Elite’ such as the Rockefellers, need us all to be on their ‘smart grid’, to be used as part of their future ‘carbon currency’ in which they intend to give carbon credits for ‘energy’ or labour exerted, with which to buy all our requirements. These carbon credits will be on a card or chip and will expire after a certain time ie there will be no accumulation of wealth allowed so forget saving for your own home etc. Too bad if you run out of carbon credits. Too bad if you are retired or disabled. I guess you will have to eat insects as proposed by the United Nations recently. It will be the demise of the US$ as the reserve currency, the introduction instead of the SDR currency created by the IMF the future global bank but for we, the people it will be only an energy based ‘currency’ of serfdom, the carbon credit system. Our home appliances will be monitored for energy use and controlled remotely according to our carbon credit tally and our behaviour as to resisting the tyrannical system and its consequences will be monitored too, using our home ‘spy’ appliances..

  • Bruce C

    With all due respect, I found this interview to be the longest, most unreadable and convoluted than I can remember. The charts were ridiculous to me. I’m sorry.

    If his ideas are what it will take to change the establishment, or whatever he’s advocating, then we’re all in trouble.

    • acudoc1949

      He throws a lot of information out there, he is sticking his neck out there for sure, but l really like his attitude and wish him a wider platform. No man’s ideas will be adopted in toto. It is more important that they are expressed, even in their wild flourishing, than that they remain unsaid!

      • Thank you — and thank the Bell for asking 38 questions. I answered them to the best of my ability.

    • Landon

      I found this to be one of the most thought-provoking pieces I’ve read yet on DB. Steele has my vote, should he run in any election I can vote in! The solution to a failed ideology (fiat currency creation by central banksters) is new and/or better ideas. Steele certainly has them, in spades.

  • Truth in Media “End Partisanship”

    Ben Swann explains how the new coalition of EndPartisanship org is working to break the 2 party hold on primary elections, which currently lock around 50% of voters out of the process. Plus, Ben details a lawsuit that has now been filed in the state of New Jersey to break that hold.

    This will be the best route for rooting out cronyism in D.C. with actual scenes with voters being turned away and discouraged by the two party establishment. You really should view this!

  • Dave Meekhof

    RS: “However, removing money in the negative sense does not address all of the other conditions that enable the few to screw over the many. In the electoral process, for example, removing money does not overcome the fact that only Democrats and Republicans can get on most ballots.”
    I will have to respectfully disagree with this statement. It is my observation that it has always been problematic for public matters when money interests enter politics. And as an example, that is exactly how Democrats and Republicans get on the ballot to the exclusion of all others.
    I know I must sound exhausting bringing up currency again, but I believe it is vitally important since it is through our currency, namely how it is/was created that our freedom and liberties have been hijacked. It is how our commerce and businesses have been hijacked. It is how our life sustenance has been hijacked. Cure that problem and all else falls back into place, or at least becomes manageable, controllable by free and productive wealth producing peoples. The last vestige of market created currency was taken away not that long ago, 2008, starting with TARP and then QE. Sure, collateral backed currency exists, but it is being drowned. How can it compete with 100% thin air? And the fact that we sit idly by watching assets being bought up with it? And it isn’t important? It is important if one understands that currency represents ones labors if one cares to produce for a living, and 100% thin air is paramount to cutting in line, taking everything or bidding it up.
    I asked Robert Steele in the previous thread what he believed is the true source of currency. He said he didn’t know. Well, all the other high minded dialog, as good as it may be, most of which I agree with, is meaningless to me when the fundamentals aren’t properly addressed. I also like Ellen Brown and Bill Still until I hear their solutions. At least they had solutions, misguided State solutions. Now that may not be fair to Mr. Steele. But I don’t see how demanding or mandating everyone and everything to be open, fair and transparent is going to solve anything. Criminal minds won’t comply. That is what makes them criminal. The message to the criminal element holding offices is that they will have to do a better job of concealment,.

    • acudoc1949

      I too share the belief that the nature of the currency itself (debt-based, fractional-reserve, politicized credit creation instead of actual commodity money in the hands of the citizenry, with loans of made only from previous savings) lies at the heart of so many problems. The vicious circle of fractional-reserve, fiat paper-producing bankers supporting politicians supporting fractional-reserve, fiat paper-producing bankers, has to be broken, torn completely asunder, and the people have to have a stand-alone money that is out of the reach of bankers and politicians. I appreciate Mr. Steele’s insight about the easy diversion of our debt-based money created ex nihilo to fund all these unnecessary wars.

      • Dave Meekhof

        It just needs to be out of the reach of monopoly, not controlled by any single entity. It wouldn’t have happened without the FRA of 1913. The comingling of Commerce and State.

    • OverIt

      I agree with your comment, davejr, that criminal minds won’t comply. An excellent scientific study on the Pathocracy, a book called “Political Ponerology”, explains how the methodology used by psychopaths to gain power is to infiltrate genuine organisations of any sort (such as environmental organisations, unions, political parties) and take them over without revealing the deception. The usurpers then use doublespeak to confuse and control the members. So no matter what changes are proposed for our political systems, unless we recognize that there are those who are biologically different from the majority, how, and their symptoms, and watch out for this, any system will be infiltrated, taken over and controlled for evil purposes, as is occurring today.

  • Danny B

    OK, 40 comments,, time to go off-topic. -:)
    There is much discussion of the nature and actions of Man. This is all relevant, of course. BUT, we live in a world that contains

    A large number of artificial constructs. Our ever-increasing use of science to control (and destroy) each other and our enviornment demands that we have a good grasp of science. We have ever-more destructive power. We need to understand our potential powers to be able to preserve humanity.

    We (they) spread depleted uranium around with nary a care. We ( the Russians) dumped dozens of old reactors in the Bering Sea, et al with nary a care. One bay glows blue from so much Cherenkov radiation. Chernobyl was built without a containment building. Some parts of the area are so radioactive that the Russians? Ukrainians? have covered the areas with 2 meter thick steel plates. Fukushima is raising the background radiation rate with no end in sight. The first-ever meltdown at Rocketdyne in Chatsworth, Ca is still spewing radiation.

    We all need to be more cognisant of our indiscriminant use of dangerous science. Roundup is failing and big Chem wants to use agent orange. The North American pollinators are failing and we fly in millions of bees from Australia. We kill off the bats so,,, we need even more pesticides. Then, we get more Parkinson’s. Glyco phosphate kills off both soil bacteria and gut bacteria. We get sick far more often. Runaway science is just as big a factor in our collective problems as is pathological leadership.
    Mr. Slayer has been right on point at exposing and illustrating this. We need to be far more aware of mucking up the physical world.

  • Arationofreason

    If open information sharing could be made to work seem wonderful but not really in line with human/organization natural behavior. That’s why we have individual sovereign nations and independent, feuding organizations within nations. Then there is the consideration that he who has the gold makes the rules and we all know who they are and it ain’t us. Keep trying it is a worthy goal.

  • acudoc1949

    DB, thank you so much for this stimulating interview. You guys are a treasure trove of important discourses.

  • Don Jusko

    Robert Steel doesn’t seem to like Libertarians, calls us all Absolutists which is a lie. All the while he follows the Libertarian platform. This man is sick. He does say some good points, all of which are covered by the Ron Paul Libertarian platform. Don’t waste your time with clowns DB.

  • Danny B

    I keep posting all this negative stuff. I’m going to add some developments that are positive or potentially positive.
    I’ll write on energy because it is the master resource. It is not scarce.
    There is enough energy inside the space in this empty cup to boil all the oceans of the world. This is … quote of Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman.

    Tom Bearden said that; if all the
    energy in one c.c .was converted to matter, it would

    equal all the matter in the known universe.

    can appreciate that we are surrounded by energy ,,, like a frog in a
    blast furnace Nature’s trick is to keep us isolated from the excess.
    This energy is expressed as “scalar potentials”.

    NASA has accepted that the sun is electric rather than hot nuclear fission. ALL the hot fission research at Lawrence Livermore,
    et al is just for weapons research.
    Farnsworth perfected hot fusion in the ’60s and was quickly shut down.

    BTW, you can find replications of the Fusor on Youtube.

    Pons and Fleishman got a good start on cold fusion. It has been more accurately rebranded LENR. Everybody is racing for LENR;

    Elemental water can easily provide lots of energy. Here are a couple of vids.

    Stan Meyers built a great car that ran on water;

    Peswiki has a great collection of new energy developments. Scroll down just a bit to see the top 5.

    Rex Research has lots of info on emergent technologies;

    Panacea is doing everything
    that they can to improve the world.

    is lots more but, this is a good starting place. The intellectual
    descendents of Nikola Tesla are hard at work to carry out his dreams.

    Take Joe Newman for example. You’ve never heard of him. He can completely change the world;

    Then, there is the Keshe foundation.
    Here is a vid to put this into perspective.
    And here is something to bring peace;

    • I just discovered this post, and the comments, and I want to add Eugene Mallove’s work with the “infinite energy foundation”. Search Eugene Mallove, there are companies that have deceitfully similar names to the foundation.

  • Malcolm Loftes

    most thought provoking, thank you so much. There is hope evident after all

  • OverIt

    Well done, Daily Bell, for eventually getting into some excellent questioning. Regards the proposals, although I could not quite wrap my head around the whole concept proposed, I would caution that some of the ideas have the scent of UN Agenda 21. I would caution that the watermelon Greens parties globally are for UN Agenda 21 but worse still they support a Global Government and thus an end to national sovereignty. UN Agenda 21 is about ‘communitarianism’ which sounds like a politically correct new term for communism, it is about removing private property rights and individual rights, and making such things as cars, the suburbs, airconditioning etc ‘unsustainable’. Read Rosa Koire’s “Behind the Green Mask” for more on UNAgenda 21. It exposes the UN programs directly being embedded into local councils’ planning schemes, especially enforcing numerous ‘overlays’ of control over private property, around the world using ngo ICLEI. The UN literally taking control of your backyard whether you live in the U.S or Australia – same programs, same terminology.

    Whenever I hear something called ‘smart’ anything I shudder with dread – Orwellian doublespeak, such as the global spy smart meter grid which is so damaging to health as well (see ‘Barrie Trower’ for details including the serious damage of wi-fi in schools to the eggs in the ovaries of our young schoolgirls – France has removed wifi in schools thanks to ex British intelligence Barrie Trower being a beacon for truth and spilling the beans).

    Why not simply investigate more closely the Switzerland political system which is more power to the people by use of referendum.

    • Bill Ross

      For me, the `sniff test` points to Soros ties, at least partially philosophically, and yep, Agenda 21.

    • I oppose all UN control and Agenda 21 concepts. The Greens are an asset to be engaged and exploited, not a party to lead — they have no bench — but certainly an ally to be courted.

      • OverIt

        I would never trust any source or potential ‘leader’ who reveals a mind that intends to “engage and exploit” anyone or any group. I thought you were about transparency and honesty.

        This is the sort of activity of George Soros who admitted being behind the colour revolutions and whose influence stretches as far as Australia – he is behind ‘GetUp’ a supposedly grassroots organisation promoting global warming and their Labour party and Greens party (third largest party there who recently held the balance of power ie they have a ‘bench’.

        Of course UN control is Rockefeller control, including his v generous donation of the land upon which the UN sits, as well as his acknowledgment in his biography that he is working toward an end to sovereign nationality and a One World Government. But then, since he chooses the U.S. Presidents, thats hardly surprising.

        • Obviously your understanding of the English language differs from mine. Nothing I can do about that. What part of transparency are you missing in my candid explicit commentaries here? In my world, exploitation is a technical term, not a terrm that should incite pavlovian libertarian absolutist disdain.

  • SHORT URL: goes to the mirror of the above post but with all links in the original body active. I will continue to respond to comments and questions here.

    • John Newby

      At the link there is a symbol called “Earth Intelligence Network” which says “Creating a Prosperous World at Peace”

      Why does a prosperous world at peace need to be created? Why not simply “Allow a Prosperous World at Peace”?

      • John Newby

        This question was not a rhetorical question.

        Perhaps you, Robert Steele, could attempt to answer it. I am not an anarchist. I believe the rule of law, the supreme law of the land, is Constitutional governance.

        I wish to know why you believe that men should “create” a prosperous world rather than letting “natural law” and Constitutional governance to be superior to natural governance.


  • Agent Revolver

    Mine one to you had gone as well, If I may say so. Long time no see.

  • None of your posts have been deleted. We rarely delete unless the post is obscene, racist or indecipherable.

    • DB, your definition of indecipherable must be extremely broad : )

  • jac


    Some questions late in the game, if you’re still around. And I ask them with utmost respect:

    1) This might sound like splitting hairs, but you point out that the Koch brothers finance suspicion toward OWS, but not that Soros and his interests finance OWS, which would make OWS no more a popular and spontaneous uprising than the Benghazi attack. So why legitimize OWS?

    2) Libertarians are particularly vulnerable on this issue, but with the all the talk on intelligence and spy agencies in this interview, not one mention of the FSB, which in effect is now the current government of Russia and who former Soviet-bloc defectors and their cover sources say are as active and dangerous now as ever, although in reduced numbers. Why the omission of such a pervasive global intelligence force, whose most atrocious acts are part of state policy rather than driven by a few rogues?

    3) The attack on fracking by environmental and govt agencies is said to be financed and perpetrated by those who benefit from higher global oil prices, particularly those who want to see the dismantling of the U.S. economy, and Russia, whose very life hinges on high oil prices. In fact, at a senate hearing committee earlier this year with the Sierra Club and The National Resources Defense Council, no one could present evidence or examples of fracturing contaminating groundwater. If this is another cooked up scarcity meme that only benefits the above, one with your background would know it. Why echo the meme?

    • Apologies for delay, for some reason I did not get an email notification on this post. Eager to be responsive.

      1) Completely agree with your skepticism of Soros, who is way too close to covert elements and whose many open source initiatives are suspect as controlled opposition. I regard Occupy — as with the Tea Party — as 80% good people with the right intentions, and only 20% “controlled.” Bottom line is that Occupy is a potential force that can be harnessed for good and I believe the Libertarian Party, if it can make common cause with Greens and Occupy and others, the only potential catalyst for a coming together of groups that do not normally play well with one another.

      2) Russian and other intelligence agencies are not of particular concern to me, nor did Daily Bell bring this up in its questions. For what its worth I have been listened to by everyone, and ignored by everyone. Russia — and NATO — are no smarter today than they were 25 years ago.

      3) I believe fracking is demonstrably criminally insane but your point about evidence not being presented has to be taken seriously…I suspect Sierra Club was simply lazy and did not come prepared. There is no scarcity. US domestic consumption is in decline. Renewable energy price points have nose-dived, with solar now also moving into 100X 1000X energy production from single points. If we had an Open Source Agency, it would sponsor a public hearing / public investigation, everyone would have a chance to present evidence pro and con, and an impartial citizen’s jury would render a decision on behalf of the nation up or down.

      • jac

        Thanks for the reply. To clarify, it wasn’t just Sierra Club, neither Sen. Landrieu or the entire US Senate Energy Natural Resource Committee could produce any such evidence.

        • Congress is ignorant. It relies on special interests for its intelligence. Once reason I want an Open Source Agency is so that it can produce intelligence for EVERYBODY, and the public as well as Congress and the media have access to the same level of intelligence as the Executive is supposed to.

          Here are the fracking entries at Phi Beta Iota:

          I am satisfied that the evidence is there but I agree with you about the evidence not being visible.

          • jac

            Thanks for the link. And final question if I may–why does Russian intelligence not concern you, given it’s long and successful history of penetrating and influencing organizations, intelligence agencies and governments? Seems it could easily wreak havoc on an open source citizen’s jury, to say the least.

            Thanks again,

          • In a holistic analytic environment EVERYTHING is of interest. Right now, in relation to creating the World Brain, Russian intelligence is right down there with scratching my ass. If Putin — whom I happen to like — were more avant guard, he would be leading the BRICS not just in creating their own Internet, but in creating the World Brain and a Multinational Decision Support Center able to confront every lie we and others tell. Truth has a tangible value. No one is using it right now.

          • jac

            A Multinational Decision Support Center with its “impartial citizens jury” cuts to the heart of the matter then, doesn’t it. It begs the question of where this citizens jury would come from and who would select them? Certainly, this is a task Putin would dream of having to compliment his perfect FSB state, thanks to Andropov’s own false flag op in his master plan to collapse the Soviet Union to make world revolution palatable
            to westerners via social democracy, global
            environmental concerns, govt privatization of industry, etc. To a lesser degree, Putin’s predecessors had a type of “multinational decision support center” in the UN with its rules of governance and security council patterned after their old Soviet government model, as one with your background knows better than anyone this side of the Barents Sea. So is this why former KGB counter-intelligence chief Oleg Kalugin turned US Homeland Security adviser thanks to his old ties to William Colby, so heartily endorse your books and this plan? Seems in the name of transparency Open Source Governance with its world brain would help complete the world government puzzle libertarians so fear. Where am I wrong?

          • NOBODY is using truth?
            Wow. What an expansive assertion.
            It’s true for all the organizations you named as vehicles for implementing your ideas: The United Nations, minor political parties (with some exception for Libertarians), Establishment politicized “science” institutions (like on fracking) have proven to be simple arms of the entrenched international elites.

            Some of your ideas are suggestive and innovative. In a practical world, though, you’re wanting to implement a plan with centralized “coordination” and a tax on all transactions. That centralizes a treasury and even with an “open source” organization, there are too many traps that prevent the realization of the ideal.

            Better to simply proclaim the idea. People can individually and locally act. Town council meetings where they might accept speakers, the neighborhood media, and so on.

          • Oh, yes, and every well-meant initiative and good idea that has gone to the United Nations and its subsidiaries have died a long, slow, subtle death.

          • I was glad to get an email notification of your added comment. For me the truth is a holistic concept — an incomplete truth is a partial truth, lacking in the fullness of truth. I consider myself a harvester of ideas from others, not an original. Feiger, for example, is the originator of the APT Tax idea, and I would love for The Daily Bell to interview him in depth on the idea. I certainly support the idea of APT Taxes being collected at the municipality levels and then going upwards toward state and national with the full consent of the localities.

          • You say the truth is holistic, and you’re right. Ever since the Serpent
            questioned Eve with a partial truth, to seque into the lie, human and
            demonic deceivers from then right up to the CIA of today, have been
            using partial truths to get them to line up and march to their fleecing.

            The APT tax idea, okay, it’s not yours, but it is what it is.

            But wherever the APT tax idea originated, whoever first conceived it,
            has all the attributes of another partial truth itself, whether you are
            privy to the holistic truth or not.

            The reason I say that is this. In its real-world implementation, it will
            NEVER look like the benevolent “democratic” image painted in your
            interview with Daily Bell.

            First of all, it IS a tax. The idea of a tax is to confiscate the fruits
            of my labor and my neighbor’s whether I agree or he agrees to give it
            up or not. There is no divine right of kings, that idea was blown away
            by the King of kings Himself, and there is no divine right of majorities
            either. You have no right to steal my stuff, you have no right to steal
            my neighbor’s stuff, and we have no divine right or natural right to
            steal yours either.

            SECOND, the APT is a TROJAN HORSE. Please excuse the caps, but it is important to sear that idea into the reader’s brain.

            A government, whether minimalist or not, whether transparent or not,
            that has a view into EVERY SINGLE transaction done by every single
            person at every single point of exchange, done electronically, is not an
            efficiency measure. It is the invitation to total tyranny. Out of this
            Trojan horse will come the bureaucrats who have a view into everything
            we do. It is a fascist dream. Orwell’s dystopian nightmare, and Aldous
            Huxley’s drug-lobomotized society, have nothing as ubiquitous as this.

            Atheists used to laugh in ridicule when Christians warned against a
            universal number for all individuals. Some of them saw the SSN as laying
            groundwork for it. Bar codes now have three anchoring pairs that in one
            code set, each pair would represent the digit six.

            But now nobody is laughing about government looking at all our transactions.

            You talk about Open Source governance as if it means a transparent
            government to us, one where we can see all of it. But you reserve a
            little secret corner for government, that nobody unapproved can see
            into. Couple that with the idea that said government would have to have
            controls in place to FORCE the collection of a tax on EVERY transaction,
            and you have something the Federal Reserve was established for in the
            first place.

            Christians have been anticipating this Trojan horse for 2,000 years now.

            REV 13:16 And
            he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to
            receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

            17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

            18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the
            number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is
            Six hundred threescore and six.

            This is why it was the body politic in the United States, the churches
            not yet compromised, who roared and stopped the mad march to Woodrow
            Wilson’s League of Nations. Biblical Christians want nothing to do with a
            worldwide dictatorship that enforces universal control over its
            citizens with an APT that ushers in a regime of embedded chips.

            Oh so benevolent comes the proposal. I have been anticipating it. Many
            libertarians will probably be fooled into it, especially the

            But not some of us.

            Atheists are not laughing anymore at the Christians who have been
            warning against a world government. Some of them still hold on to the
            old “crusader” card, the old “witch-hunt” card, to recycle
            anti-Christian bigotry in their conversation. We Christians are used to
            that, and in the USA most of us have not yet “resisted unto blood”, but
            some already have and the big numbers are coming.

            The surprise will come from some parts of the Third World, I think,
            where Christianity has been growing and influencing the culture.
            Resistance to the world dictatorship will be most resilient among those
            who answer to their God above, like Polycarp, who preferred to suffer
            the wrath of emperors, rather than the wrath of the God who prophesied
            the Messiah, and who prophesied what we now see coming.

          • What a strong useful comment you have made. The “free rider” problem is a long-standing one. How do you fund those things that are for the common good that are not “profitable” for commercial enterprises? Feige does by the way plan for cash transactions that retain privacy.

          • Take the “common goods” and make ’em private. Problem solved.

          • For a book that severely questions your point of view, see my summary review here:

            Review: STOP, THIEF! The Commons, Enclosures, and Resistance

          • We’ve all been soaked in the rationale all our lives with the need for a “commons” controlled by some central authorities in the interest of all, in various guises. The “guided” consensus these days is “democracy”. Problem is democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner. 99% want to eat the dinner of the 1%. That’s democracy, but that’s not fair either. Taxation without representation does not contemplate looting.

            I’ll read that if you read Walter Block’s writings on it. The first “high level note” at your link summarizes the totally refuted and obnoxious Marxist idea about capitalism. It has been disproved over and over again, as socialism fails. The socialist nation bosses know this. North Korea has demonstrated it needs the West’s material help. The Soviet Union admitted it. Europe is still declining under the weight of tying down petit bourgeoisie to make it near-impossible to grow a new upstart company to bigness.

          • Cash transactions that retain privacy are okay, if the “cash” is as good as something of independent worth rather than fiat say-so. Take it from a software engineer: you cannot trust computers and you cannot trust developers. Trust paper for ballots only. Hard commodity for exchange.

          • In a holistic environment EVERYTHING is of concern, with differing priorities. When I am thinking about creating a World Brain, secret intelligence organizations are at the bottom of my priority list.

      • Bill Ross

        “impartial citizen’s jury”

        AKA “free market”

        If I were to put a finger on our primary point of divergence, it is this:

        “delusions of control / systems”


        tolerating the freedom of EVERYONE, within the bounds of non-initiate aggression to make their own self-interest choices which will integrate to collective self-interest, the REASON that the residual dregs of western “civilization” has any wealth at all, the point of all the conflict, to redistribute, since productivity is no longer possible (too many predators).

        THINK about IT:

        don`t think anything is wrong with your brain. Your career, past associations. experiences has resulted in some bad assumptions that need re-evaluation. Otherwise, you remain stuck at “garbage in, garbage out”

        Not impressed by the pretty slides, either. You are proposing a new way for it to be, as opposed to working with people as they are, including tolerance of diversity by proposing a “new system” that EVERYBODY must “buy into”`(but will NOT).

        Your POV also has the glaring omission: how to deal with dissenters?

        what will the “impartial citizen’s jury” DO to dissenters? The free market will just shun them, their choice.

  • Povilas

    Thank you, TDB, for presenting/introducing…how can I define? Actors? Sentinels? History directors? For what they are, the way they speak.
    Simple questions- elaborate answers…
    “We must end the ability of any government to declare war, and fund war, in our name without our consent”- the solution is inside the quotation: no government- no war!
    Without our consent?
    Can’the consent be fabricated, or forced upon us?
    I was born in the USSR, rings me a bell 🙂
    Try so in the absence of the government:)

  • Tom V

    Thanks DB for publishing this excellent interview with Robert Steele and graciously allowing his criticisms of what he views as the absolutist tendencies of Libertarianism and the gospel of Austrian economics. It is refreshing to hear his articulate take on a broad spectrum of issues, especially when solutions are proposed, albeit too complex and intellectual to capture broad support from the masses.

    The elites are good at coming up with simplistic memes that do that, that’s why they have been successful. So is it necessary to sucker punch the populace to get then to follow you down the path to a supposedly better life? Or, given adequate stimulation and motivation, can the general populace willfully act in their own behalf in a self coordinated manner to build a better world? The removal of evil obstacles, practices, and inefficiencies doesn’t necessarily bring harmony and efficiency to the forefront. Good must be understood and consciously chosen.

    I believe Robert is stimulating thinking and inquiry in the right directions. Hopefully it will resonate with persons of action rather than being pushed aside as the nut case ravings of someone with a chip on his shoulder. I applaud his courage and the integrity of his thinking. Being courageous does not necessarily equate to being right or being successful, that remains to be seen. Outcomes also depend on what the rest of us do or don’t do rather more so than on our posturing or the tidiness of our position in a forum.

  • Anon

    Mr. Steele, I keep thinking about how Gandhi (and those who followed his message) brought the British Empire to its knees, in India, and how the Founding Fathers of this country won the War of Independence, and that of 1812, after the 20-year charter of the first Rothschild bank in the U.S. ran out, in 1811, after it was not renewed. I strongly believe that WE, THE PEOPLE already have the power. Too many simply don’t understand that fact, but also, wouldn’t know how to properly wield that power, if they did. I’m a firm believer in non-violent, non-compliance, across the board. “Live free, or die”, as Patrick Henry said, in 1775. What specific actions, would you suggest that an individual American could take, that when combined with the same or similar actions of others, could perhaps turn this crazy Ship of Fools around, before we get to the point, where the only available option remaining, is some sort of violent confrontation with the District of Criminals?

  • Jul 1, 2014 On Point with Charlie McGrath – Killing for a Lie — Complete

    Charlie McGrath presents activist Ross Caputi on the horrors of Fallujah & the deceptions that still haunts our nation and the world.

  • Jul 2, 2014 U.S Spy Secrets in Lisbon Portugal

    In this video Luke Rudkowski talks to author and investigative journalist ‎Frederico Duarte Carvalho in the major spy hub which is Lisbon Portugal. Frederico started to investigate the death of the Portuguese Prime Minister in 1980, which led him to uncover a lot of U.S and middle east spy secrets.

  • acudoc1949

    I am blown away by this man’s passion, as well as by the DB’s gracious interview style. I can’t help but be impressed also by his obvious intelligence and organizational skill, although I also cannot help but feel that it is not all that complicated, that it doesn’t need to be that organized. I liked Gray North’s essay in response to Mr. Steele’s first interview, “Why There Will Be No Revolution”, which basically advocated, imo: withdraw support from the present political and economic structures in any way that you can and allow a natural decentralization process to occur, abetted by the internet revolution, and support secession into much smaller political units (Hans Hermann Hoppe’s insight). I am frankly tired of the entire political process itself and wonder if the internet, by promoting decentralization and the dissemination of knowledge and viewpoint, will lead us home quite naturally. But honestly, my attempts to keep things simple might be because I cannot keep up with the passion and extent of intellects like Robert Steele. I do not doubt his integrity and I want to thank the DB for once again providing a platform for such important discussions!

    • Glad you enjoyed it. We agree that Mr. Steele may tend to overcomplicate matters … But he was certainly gracious with his time and insights.

  • What an epic interview, along with the posts – epic. The diversity of views here is incredible and laudable but also makes one wonder how progress can be made when so many passionate diversities exist. As someone mentioned, the hidden hand is successful in part because they keep things simple and continue to hammer away at the same memes. The mind boggles at where all of this is headed – by that I mean, the internet reformation vs the globalist state. Wild and unpredictable things will undoubtedly occur with increasing frequency but then that is what is so great (and so frustrating : ) about life: when you wake up in the morning, you never know what the day will bring. In this context it seems to me that all attempts at control are in the final analysis delusional. So often personal disasters become the best thing that ever happened to us. So often what seems a great boon turns out to be a great disaster. Perceived self-interest is just that – perceived, and our perceptions of reality while we reside in this material world are through a glass darkly at best. Perceiving God’s will (fate if you prefer : ) is only possible in hindsight and even then our perceived self-interest can blind us to the truth. This is – as the Tibetans have always said – the world of illusion. They say when we die we go to the real world. Hopefully in the real world, things will make a little more sense, and we will finally understand that our self interest wasn’t what we thought it was after all. : )

  • The “Air Force General” you mentioned in regards to 9/11 is in fact Major General Albert Stubblebine, made famous by the movie “Men Who Stare At Goats” and for being the Apostle of the US Army Remote Viewing program. MAJ Ed Danes was one of Stubblebine’s acolytes. While I appreciate the service both men gave their country I find their credibility somewhat dubious. Given that they spent remarkable amounts of taxpayer time and money on techniques Uri Geller could reproduce in a Geraldo documentary, I do not give their investigative techniques very much weight. MG Stubblebine was the first and main proponent of the “missile theory.” To be fair it Stubblebine’s observations are very astute, but I wonder why he would be the one calling this out, instead of someone more credible.