I think that one sailed right over his head, 4irw4y.

Ingo really struggles with the notion that not everyone is fooled all of the time, into believing that it is more efficient to carry on selling a maggoty-as dead horse as transport.

If passengers prefer to ride say, a donkey that stands upright and walks, then I would lend an invisible hand on board.

Cnacuba... ...

Oh, it's OK. Agent Weebley on 04/24/12 07:40 AM explains IT in fewer words than I could.

"Am I missing something... ???" - ... finally caught myself thinking what these questions would matter in Russian. No, that was just me missing to add Yachting to the string (-:

?????? ????, amanfromMars.

Evidently, a steganographic morph out.

Russian landlords in the Siver(-; Age of the XIXth Century spoke French. That's what the site' admin still can't forgive. Ok, ok, leavin'...

Some information for the Turing, though.

I am sorry, but I don't agree with the bull pucky that President Obama has a fraudulent birth certificate. He was born in Hawaii and it has been proven. I think that he deserves some respect and support from people who are set against him because they are prejudice and because they believe everything they read on the Internet. Also, the Sheriff in Arizona is just one of those "Good Old Boys" who thinks it is ok to bully people. I am from Arizona and a friend of mine just moved out of Ariz, because she didn't like being pulled over by a 'good old boy' cop who wanted to see her papers. She is an American Indian and she felt very insulted by this. Arizona used to be a good state to live in, but I don't think so anymore. Also, I am voting for President Obama to be reelected. He is a compassionate man and cares for the working class.

Hi Ingo,

You're missing links . . . or something like that.

Links are the neural net the people of the world are experiencing now . . . the joining.

And barter is one step back to move 2 steps forward . . . because many have lost the ability to trade without coercion.

Hi Abu, need your lawns mown?

I'll just send my Ingo over to tidy those up for you. He will make every blade of grass exactly the same length, or pull it out.

Delegation is an artform?

CAN someone delegate a right he doesn't have? It all boils down to this, really. Everything else is just a smokescreen to justify government (i.e. delegated monopoly violence) one way or another.

You may BELIEVE that all hell will break loose should more and more people decide to leave the superstition of a 'need for a rudiment of government' behind, while I ceased to believe that when I realized that I CANNOT delegate a right I don't have in the first place.

Oops.

Now we all know that the DB forum software does not support the cyrillic alphabet ... .. ?????? ???? should have been Good day in Russian.

Some might conclude that the hesitation and indecision/requirement for further thought more likely leads to the main thrust of the statement not being wrong and therefore correct?

And one hopes that your hope that SpaceMonkey is wrong is centred on the sentence ... . "The brain has a natural resistance to change." Such hope then allows for a mutually beneficial agreement allowing any more forceful argument/discussion on the matter to squared potentially rather than just merely doubled. Such exponential growth in like minded cooperations/collaborations readily explains why and how a relative few, who can even be quite psychotic and pathological and delusional and pimp themselves as a chosen few, can have such a colossal impact on the many.

?????? ????, 4irw4y,

I wonder what Turing would have thought of these Virtual Machine tests of human intelligence for signs of advanced intelligence capability and facility ... ... .. future utility? Do you imagine he would be somewhat in despair and more than a just a tad disappointed and surprised at what he would have discovered and uncovered?

Back is right... .barter is certainly not a move forward.

I am pondering your statement. I am not sure you are right. At least I hope you are wrong, but then... ..you may be.

"Still you argue with it. Human (-: "

Am I missing something... ???

AA: "A remarkable statement indeed ... explains a great deal of your basic attitude, in my view."

B: Yeah, how so... ??? You seem to be given to making statements which you never justify.

AA: "Gee, lesson learned, eh? Statists will love your government-is-god/nature-given approach."

B: Where and how did I say government was good... ??? A minimum of government is necessary, I said. Goodness has nothing to do with it. The founding fathers figured that out, but then they are "statist" as well, aren't they... ??? It's the crazy anarcho-capitalism you peddle which is the answer isn't... ???

AA: "Well, I guess we just wait and see what happens when the ponzi finally comes crashing down, right?"

B: Can you ever be responsive to a comment... ??? You are all over the place with your responses.

As to central banking being a Ponzi scheme and having to fall aprt, you have no disagreement from me. However, the worst fallout from such collapse can be prevented, but you seem to have no clue about it.

So you quote some Larken Rose who is as clueless as you, and I am supposed to be impressed... ???

AA: "That's just one example of how what we're taught as basic civics is absurd, insane and horribly dangerous garbage."

B: I haven't been taught anything as basic civics. However, what is insane, is your twisted idea of government. You don't understand human nature, you don't understand natural law, and you certainly don't understand the need for a rudiment of government at the local level.

If your doctrinaire ideas were ever applied in reality, you would not survive for a day, but maybe that should happen. Then we could watch Darwin's "natural selection" theory in action.

Bischoff: "Nature did not adapt man with genetic instinct to survive on the ground."

AA: A remarkable statement indeed ... explains a great deal of your basic attitude, in my view.

-----

Bischoff: "He has to create an artifical cocoon to make survival possible. Government is part of that cocoon"

AA: Gee, lesson learned, eh? Statists will love your government-is-god/nature-given approach.

That does not necessarily make it true, though. In fact, I wonder if you found out that funny thing about Santa Claus already.

-----

Bischoff: "If you were involved in a local government meeting, where government truly matters, or at least should be, you and your slogans would have been laughed out of the meeting. That's how much weight your slogans carry... "

AA: Well, I guess we just wait and see what happens when the ponzi finally comes crashing down, right?

In the meantime, you might want to contemplate the words of Larken Rose - which I wholeheartedly agree with:

"I'm a voluntaryist. I believe that there's no such thing as a legitimate ruling class, even a limited, constitutional one, and that the initiation of violence, even when legal, is bad. That rules out all government. I'm all for cooperation and organization but that's never what government is.

(... )

In short, all belief in authority and government is insane and horribly destructive, the most destructive superstition the world has ever known, in fact. Of course, that's the opposite of what we're all taught.

We're all taught that obedience to authority and obeying the law is what makes civilization possible. We were all told that lie, but it's still a lie. The belief that some people have the right to forcibly dominate others, even in a limited way, is the opposite of being civilized. It's an attempt to legitimize theft, murder and other violent aggression, by way of pseudo-religious political rituals - constitutions, elections, legislation, and so on. In short, the belief in authority has led to more death and destruction than anything else in history

(... )

This may sound odd, but believing in government makes as much sense as believing in Santa Claus, and that is remarkably easy to prove, and my book does, in several different ways. One example is: Can someone delegate a right he doesn't have? No, of course not. If I don't have the right to steal, I can't give someone else the right to steal. It's so elementary it's ridiculous. The problem is that obvious truth completely rules out all government. If normal people don't have the right to tax, and forcibly interfere in the lives of non-violent people, then they can't possibly have given such a right to those in government - not by any election, or constitution, or any other document or ritual - and that means that just about everything that government does is inherently illegitimate.

To call it government implies that it has authority, that it has the right to rule, that it has rights that us mere mortals don't have. Those in power claim they got these super-human rights from us, from the people, despite the fact that we never had such rights to begin with, and still have no such rights and couldn't possibly have given them to anyone else. That's just one example of how what we're taught as basic civics is absurd, insane and horribly dangerous garbage."

Click to view link

DB & amfM: Your teachings spread round the globe, of course:

Click to view link

amfM and readers: Sorry, I think I need to reset and soft-upgrade my Ingo 1700 series, he still isn't working properly; uses way too much power to achieve little progress, and seems hard coded to the same tuner frequency in his discombobulator, or they say under the Antarctic shelf, de-scam-babby-lata.

I am not proud of this, but I am still his Owner until he's fully operational.

Can anyone else help us with this epic re-programming task?

Spain is TOAST
Click to view link

Dear Ingo,

Imagine amanfromMars as an AI for successful teaching English in Maths, Economics, Astronomy, Googling, whatever. Still you argue with it. Human (-:

"Do people have to wake up as full fledged "serfs", before they get a clue as to what is happening to them... ???"

Most people... yes. It's human psychology we're up against here. The brain has a natural resistance to change. The current state has to be extremely painful or the desired state extremely pleasureable for change to kick in. In most cases the former is required before people will change as the accoutrements of the technoligical age - smartphones, gaming consoles, nice cars, nice clothes, etc - that are making the current state extremely desireable to stay in. These things will need to be gone for people to wake up out of their technology-induced miasma. It's the "psychology of previous investment".

Back to barter then...

Regarding the supposed wealth that is stored in the banking system and the nature of money and its surreal unnatural invention for use in control of power and the purchase of assets and toys, baubles and beads, would this be an accurate public service film ... ... ... . http://youtu.be/lsmbWBpnCNk ... ... . or is it simply perverse and compellingly subversive misinformation presenting false facts in an elaborate fiction?

And if what is shared there is true, would the elaborate fiction be tales spun around facts to conceal the truth in order for orders and lodges/cabals and conspiracies to present a global virtual reality and big picture show which now would be comprehensively hacked and cracked.

And there we all were, dismissing and arguing against the fact that Virtual Reality is the true nature of primitive Man's existence, and the future is best created and better governed with humans elevated to the status of virtually programmable machines ... ... .. with SMART Pleasure Robots particularly treasured.

So, who wants to Output some Sublime Input into AI and ITs SMART Global ProgramMING Initiatives/IntelAIgent Projects?

A: "Human beings don't need government. It's against their nature."

B: See, that is where you are absolutely wrong. As a matter of fact on this subject you are downright clueless.

Nature did not adapt man with genetic instinct to survive on the ground. He has to create an artifical cocoon to make survival possible. Government is part of that cocoon. How much government is the question, not whether government.

The founders had figured that it out correctly. They clearly understood human nature as it had to be controlled in the terrestrial setting. They designed the Constitution to promote government at the local level. They knew that natural law through the fertility/usability of land, provided all the costs neceessary for goverment by collecting payment for its use according to value. That is the Anglo-Saxon principle which Sir Thomas Dale employed in saving the Jamestown sttlement in 1618.

I am sorry to say, but all your quotes while they apply to humans, do not apply to humans at the local level when they get together to create a government to guard against the detrimental effects of basic human instincts suited for life in the trees.

If you were involved in a local government meeting, where government truly matters, or at least should be, you and your slogans would have been laughed out of the meeting. That's how much weight your slogans carry... .

It isn't "taxes" as such which the ruling elite collects. They appropriate the fruits of your labor, and they will keep doing it to the extent that all you will have left is enough to survive to expand more effort in producing wealth which then will be confiscated.

When they undermine the Constitution, they undermine the application of Anglo-Saxon priinciples necessary for government of free people. They undermine personal liberty and private property concepts.

Do people have to wake up as full fledged "serfs", before they get a clue as to what is happening to them... ???

"Only sheep will hold still enough to have the mark or number impressed upon them."

Quote by Ingo Bischoff: 4/22/2012

I agree with you that Herr Popp has a clear and logical way of explaining things. The most important point he makes, is that people simply do not understand money. He points out that a college education in business emphazises "Waren" and "Dienstleistung", but never explains the nature and function of money.

Then Andreas Popp launches into the description of the Keynesian/Friedmanite central bank monetary system which prevails in the world today. While he gives a good account of it, he cites the common mistake about creating ten times the credit from a single deposit.

How seemingly educated individuals, can make such statements, at least with regards to the USD/FRN, I don't know.

People simply do not borrow money, unless they mean to employ it. Fed Agents do not extend additional credit, unless the loan payments are collected (meaning productivity, that is prior to TARP and QEs). Evidence has to be provided to the Fed Agent through the submission of T-Bills. To the extent that Andreas Popp repeats the erroneous interpretation of the reserve requirements set by the Fed, and confuses them with fractional reserve lending against positive assets, his credibility must be questioned.

On one hand, he makes the absolutely correct observation that irredeemable USD/FRNs amount to circulation of debt obligations, while on the other hand he maintains that fractional reserve lending can be conducted with debt. Who lends debt... ???

In any case, the discussion on the Click to view link clip turns on "cash" or "cashless" transactions through the facilities of a worldwide central banking system. The question is, central banking or no central banking.

IOW, the question is to create currency against credit/debt, or to create currency against socially circulating capital under the Real Bills Doctrine.

The only answer to that questions is catagorically "RBD currency". With RBD currency, it doesn't matter whether there is cash or not. As a matter of fact, RBD currency works at its optimum as a digital currency.

As long as gold as the standard of value, as well as the standard of measure is attached to the digital RBD currency, people will always be in charge of their earnings, their savings and the prime interest rate. At that point, it matters little how much gold exists, or who owns it.

Of course, this brings me back to Herr Popp's most cogent point. People fail to possess the faintest clues about the nature of "Money", and the elites will ensure that they will stay clueless.

Hosea 4:6 "My people are doomed for lack of knowledge".

I think a little quote might be very appropriate here: "And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Rev. 13:16,17)

Wowee! This was written nearly 2000 years ago at a time when technology necessary for the fulfillment of the vision was yet distant future. That future is now. The cashless society is not only necessary, but predicted.

Great article. But the emphasis on tax collections is for a purpose. Under the current system of fiat currencies, tax collection is only a smokescreen. Tax collection is not the only, nor is it even the primary, means of governments obtaining the resources they need to grow and metastasize. But if states quit collecting taxes, the jig would be up. Governments rely on people's perception of taxes as the primary source of income. If they quit collecting, and relied totally on their REAL primary sources, which are borrowing and currency debasement, people would (finally!) start wondering, "Where are they getting all the money?" Then there would (finally!) be hell to pay.

Spain is known for exporting the inquisition (though historically speaking this might not be accurate), and now it's time to export a brave cashless society free from the impediments of silly cheap metal coins of countless sizes. Now for the first time since so long ago, you won't have to double check your trousers' pockets to prevent the bank notes dissoving away in detergent. It's so practical!

Bischoff: "you are still stuck with basic human instinct which no virtual anything can alter for you. It's nature which has genetically imprinted these instincts upon your behavior over millions of years. If you think that you can overcome these basic instincts with electronics, you will better off to head back to Mars."

-------------------

I think you're basically right here, Bischoff. That's why I think you're entirely wrong, however, when you write, "we had the perfect blue print with the Constitution."

Why do I think you're wrong? For the SAME reasons YOU GAVE to show amanfromMars is wrong.

Human beings don't need government. It's against their nature. "It's nature which has genetically imprinted these instincts upon your behavior over millions of years". It will turn against them at the end of the day - even when government is established with the best of intentions and/or a bold concept like the US Constitution.

Why do think it got "screwed up", as you phrased it?

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, that's why.

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern."

i'd just like to share this with Daily Bell ( for German Language speakers ) :

One of best & 'serious' interviews (VIDEO) that I have seen for a long time , with ANDREAS POPP :

"Elimination of cash"

Quote: Update 22/04/2012:

Spain wants to allow only cash payment of up to 2,500 €. In Greece, cash transactions are prohibited from 1.500 €. Italians may be paid only up to 1.000 € in cash. And Sweden wants to abolish cash altogether. Model for the EU?

/Unquote
Click to view link

German original : "Abschaffung des Bargeldes"

Click to view link

... . Just a shame that it is in German !

A few of the highlights :

# Elimination of cash will make 'Bank Runs' impossible
# No one is anonymous if cash is eliminated
# Orwell did not exaggerate , the Matrix is highly intelligent
# Cash ( coin ) means 'freedom' from the Matrix
# Those that refuse to comply , will be cut off from the Matrix
# …. which means : jobless, homeless, hungry etc. etc.
# some German supermarkets already accept 'only CCs '
# etc. etc. … & many other good points


Andreas Popp explains the relation between Bank Money and Real Money ( which all here already appreciate , I guess ), and why 'Eliminating Cash' is so important for the PTB … = 'total control' so that 'Trust in the PTB' is forced upon the populace and impossible to question.

He explains everything in a brilliant way ... & as I said, it is a great shame that the video is not in English.

Of course, assuming that a pending Euro-Crash may force Cash Elimination ( before or after ), then the next question will be to what extent they will criminalize Gold and Silver holders : Either by taxing 'profits' ( LOL, stealing value , not profits ) on Gold/Silver or by ' 'fixing' the price' ( like they do today already ).

Thanks to 'Globalization' of the Western Banking System , there is nowhere to hide … or emigrate to where ? … China ?

FWIW

Reply from The Daily Bell

This is great. Thanks.

"and your inability to relate to what I say." ….. Posted by Bischoff on 04/22/12 12:51 AM

Crikey, Bischoff,

And there was me thinking that everything was plainly enough expressed for all to comprehend. Pray tell, what part of ….."and your reasons put forward for justification/explanation of those disagreements, and which I can fully understand but would in no way be in agreement with," …… do you not understand or relate to. I can easily understand and relate to what you say but consider that you may not say nearly enough, which is probably entirely due to being stuck in that basic human instinct rut which you appear to have decided you can do nothing about, and which I do hereby dispute, and to imply that Mankind can do nothing about it either, would be a quite crazy delusional imposition of a subjective individual opinion, would it not, ….. especially in the light of the revelations in this thread, that with SMART Media, can such basic reprogramming be easily done, and with IT support is it for real and already virtually a done and dusted project.

Indeed, you are somewhat of a contradiction, because in the excellent informative post of 04/21/12 08:12 PM, do you very ably describe California in, and as a State of Virtual Reality, completely divorced from the responsibility and accountability of its actions and on a rapid road to collapse and ruin in the greater system of things. And that is so very little different from a Live Operational Virtual Environment as to make no appreciable difference.

And you ask finally there,… "How can the country survive with such a voter pool... ..????? Tell me…" ……. and here would you dismiss the notion that a simple complex reprogramming of poorly programmed/undereducated Virtual Machines/humans, by others with a completely different mindset and remote virtual ability, would be an obvious first step with results guaranteed by the process.

More on what is to be done is also found here*, challenging and embedding itself into systems and/or services which are perceived of as being SMART and in positions of power and control, but which may be just empty hollow vessels in the tow of a petrified intellectually bankrupt status quo. And that makes such status quo systems easy, defenceless prey to virtual zeroday vulnerability exploitation of their …… well, it would analogue conditioning in a new digital world of binary magic, methinks, and that would quite perfectly enough describe the enigmatic Catch 22 dilemma which rules/blights your existence which has been intentionally made dependent upon pretty printed paper and electronic credit transfers for the display of personal wealth and purchase of an artificial power and control with inventions of weapons of mass destruction and wars on terror and drugs and their ilk, rather than free and selfless distributive of global collective prosperity.

* Posted Sunday 22nd April 2012 04:51 GMT amanfromMars 1 …. on Click to view link in reply to Anonymous Coward who Posted Saturday 21st April 2012 12:22 GMT

And does not Dave, with the post on 04/22/12 03:19 AM, voice a valid immediately available alternative which appears to be a most attractive proposition, fronting a solution, which would find favour and support with most probably at least 99% of the population ……. "The Spanish could do the same as the people in Iceland did. Iceland told the bankers they were out of luck and could not expect the people to pay for the bankers stupidity. Now Icelands economy is doing fine and the Icelandic government is busy throwing the bankers in jail.

A win win situation."

Whenever the situation is descending as it is into deepening crises and increasing social unrest, would one be surely classed as a classic arrogant fool and useless ignorant tool to not to conclude that past and present programs at resolution are failures and are actually contributory factors in fuelling the systems collapses.

Let's try something different and completely new and novel and noble, for a change and for that change that was earlier promised by that presidential hopeful who turned out to be such a crashing disappointment.

The Spanish could do the same as the people in Iceland did. Iceland told the bankers they were out of luck and could not expect the people to pay for the bankers stupidity. Now Icelands economy is doing fine and the Icelandic government is busy throwing the bankers in jail.

A win win situation.

Good post.

"and which I would suggest is indicative to all that it is your mindset which is still stuck in a basic human instinct rut ….. and indeed you have admitted it being so …. is that which will separate us and be an ever increasing chasm between us... "

Well Mars Man, I am not as fortunate as you are. I am an earth bound being. I am not able to escape my human genetics impressed upon me over millions of years. You, being a Mars creature are not settled with these sort of problems.

Therefore, I am quite understand your mindset toward earthlings in general, and your inability to relate to what I say.

Good day, Bischoff,

Then shall your disagreements with that which is freely shared here about that which we are discussing, and your reasons put forward for justification/explanation of those disagreements, and which I can fully understand but would in no way be in agreement with, and which I would suggest is indicative to all that it is your mindset which is still stuck in a basic human instinct rut ….. and indeed you have admitted it being so …. is that which will separate us and be an ever increasing chasm between us, as you remain unconvinced that Man can do quite phenomenally significantly better than he has ever been able and enabled to do before, by virtue of his being better advised and edutained by what can be so easily and effortlessly done by those who would not be so hindered in thought and ability.

And it is misleading to say ……."If you think that you can overcome these basic instincts with electronics,…" ….. for that is not ever something which I would have said. In clarification on that matter, and in further explanation of that which you may be alluding to, I would offer the observation that if one considers the brain as a computer with an operating system/operating systems and a driver/drivers, is basic human instinct and genetically imprinted information/instruction easily transformed by Advanced IntelAIgent ReProgramMING and Novel NeuroLinguistic Assaults on Base Operating System and Driver Assumptions/Core Protocols.

Mars Man,

My disagreements with you have nothing to do with the willingness to learn, or to use virtual anything to do so... ...

I am all for learning. However, you seem to neglect that with all your Virtual Environment and IT techniques, you are still stuck with basic human instinct which no virtual anything can alter for you. It's nature which has genetically imprinted these instincts upon your behavior over millions of years. If you think that you can overcome these basic instincts with electronics, you will better off to head back to Mars.

"BTW, California, that bankrupt state (for all practical purposes, even if not in strict legal sense)... ."

In a legal sense, California nor any other state is unable to go bankrupt. States are sovereign entities which are barred from using federal bankruptcy courts to discharge their debt obligations. All a state can do is "default".

California long ago has defaulted, not in a legal sense, but by being unable to pay its obligations on its own. California needs the U.S. Treasury and thereby the other 49 states to pay untold sums to meet its current payment obligations.

This situation is kept very hush, hush... though no investor is fooled into buying California bonds. Instead, it is the federal government, and the rest of the 49 states which keep California from declaring default, lest the panic spread, and people would dump their state and municipal bonds before it is too late.

Why is this happening... ??? California modified its Constitution and violated one of the principles contained in every other state constitution to qualify it for acceptance into the Federal Union. It constitutionally changed the Anglo-Saxon principle of assessing land values for taxation purposes. This created an outrageous real estate boom in California which on its decline has effected the entire California economy, as well as the U.S. economy. The full collapse of the real estate market, particularly the commercial real estate market hasn't arrived. It is the last phase in the process. The politicians here in California, as well as those in Washington are trying everything to manage this collapse and have it come to benefit the land owners.

However, the whole effort to keep California real estate speculators from going bankrupt is against the intent of the original U.S. Constitution in a magnitude too great to be appreciated by the people. In the early days of the American Republic even two of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention ended up in debtors prison, because their real estate speculations went sour. Now a days, with the federal bankruptcy laws, these real estate speculators wouldn't even have to go to prison. They would just lose everything. Yet, the voters tolerate the crony capitalism, or rather the crony feudalism played by these California and federal politicians.

It is the intent of the real estate interests to turn California and subsequently the entire United States in to a feudal type land ownership system, such as exists in Mexico, and in the rest of Latin America. It is the European feudal system that was specifically rejected with the U.S. Constitution.

All the turmoil created by the liberal press, and by the public service unions are merely a smoke screen. The real purpose is to divert attention from the effort of the commercial real estate speculators to keep land from being assessed and taxed on assessed value.

The dumb California homeowners are pitted against each other in this game. They have no clue as to what is happening to them. The voter is totally incapable of unravelling and understanding the economic mess that was created in California. This ignorance comes to the benefit of the large real estate owners who aim to do away with land value assessments.

Again, and again, the California voter falls for this propaganda crap put out by the Jarvis/Gann people. They insinuate themselves into the tea party movement by claiming to fight government taxation. Most of the tea party people fall for their arguments, because that is the only thing they know, "fight government and fight taxes". That the voters first pay for their share of the cost of government, and then pay a second time for the share of the cost of government the commercial real estate owners owe, never ever enters their minds.

Yet, it is the commercial real estate owners who disproportionally benefit from the taxes and monies collected from small business owners in rent and consumers in the form of higher prices.

But, hey... the education system isn't there to explain these things to Americans. It's there to serve the punderers and looters by keeping the average American like mushrooms, "in the dark and fed lots of bullshit".

How can the country survive with such a voter pool... ..????? Tell me... .

" If we can't figure out how to organize our society without the government having a monopoly on the use of force, then we're too pathetic to live."

We are too pathetic to live. Look, we had the perfect blue print with the Constitution. We screwed it up. The ratification of the 16th and 17th Amendments cemented the screw up. Then California modifies its Constitution with Prop. 13 to where it no longer complies with the intent of Article IV of the U.S. Constitution, and no one says "boo".

When you look at it that way, you are right, "we are too pathetic to survive".

However, if you think you can do better with crypto-currency, dream on...

Everyone should start using crypto-currencies and just ignore the government. Keep your ledgers and records encrypted. Proclaim that no economic activity took place. No you dont know why product got manufactured and then vanished. Inventory shrinkage these days ... lol. If we can't figure out how to organize our society without the government having a monopoly on the use of force, then we're too pathetic to live.

The Dutch government coalition has collapsed over plans for austerity measures which the people will not accept to keep in place a corrupt system of finance, which is more akin to a dodgy protection racket into extortion?

BTW, California, that bankrupt state (for all practical purposes, even if not in strict legal sense), in its state tax forms section on making payments to the state, says:

California Franchise Tax Board is no longer accepting cash, checks, or anything other than electronic payments on payments over 20k. If you cannot pay in electronic form, they will assess a 1% additional levy as a penalty.

Bureaucrats, be they Spain, DC, or Sacramento can crash the economy with stuff that sounds good from their offices and suffer no consequences. They will enjoy huge spiked pensions. Ditto lawmakers. Serve 5 years in elected office of city or state in California, and you essentially get over 100% of your highest salary year for life as pension. Multiple elected jobs, and you get multiple pensions. That's why they are fine with term limits. What a system.

Hi, Bischoff, Nice to hear from you here again. You have been away a short while?

You do realise, of course, that your inability/studied reluctance to grasp the threads of information shared here with regards to extremely disruptive and/or creative virtual technologies which easily alter human perception and expose centuries of elite manipulations to be an inevitably self-destructive force in its final flings today, as intelligence rapidly increases with the selfless sharing of greater knowledge and dirty little secrets discovered and uncovered, beautifully provides a blank canvas upon which one can paint with others active and HyperRadioProActive in the field, the much bigger picture with no unnecessary obstructions to blight the landscape.

We are most grateful to you, and fully accept that to realise existence can simply altered and driven in any chosen direction by memes and means with bases which mirror binary programming and computer operating systems, is a quantum leap in human understanding. But careful simple future explanations will obviously remedy that hurdle, and for those who have a passion for learning about what can be done in Live Operational Virtual Environments, does IT offer fabulous opportunities which were never even dreamed about before.

And one is never too old to learn, Bischoff, and there should be nothing to stop you learning should you be willing to learn.

Again... .that Mars babble... ..

"... prohibit the payment in cash transactions of over 2,500 euros and which at least involved a businessman professional."

Thats right! It is that dastardly businessman professional that needs to be clamped down. They wouldn't want to step on any toes in the drug trade. That could cause some serious repercussions.

Or alternatively, Bischoff, a velvet revolutionary headline ... . "Finally, man discovers future intelligence for peaceful and creative co-existences in brave new orderly world programs" ... ... . which you may like to know are in existence and easily readily delivered with CyberIntelAIgent Command and Control of IT and Media Channels of Communication with Computers and SMART Virtual Drivers in Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating Systems ... . CHAOS.

The nature of society has shifted, runderwo, but even as it shifts from Power Elite hierarchical verticality, does peer-to-peer horizontalism also require a definitive leadership to show and share direction with transparent purpose. And the secret trick there in those fields, is to also always ensure and assure that it is selfless, and that should also always be demonstrably so for boundless, super rapide progress.

[blockquote]Posted Saturday 21st April 2012 03:39 GMT amanfromMars 1 …. Click to view link

Re: Feel the fear, which when fear is manufactured, allows one serial fondlings in its follies.

[i][b]I don't think the HO* is that stupid[/b]... ... .. AC Posted Friday 20th April 2012 16:40 GMT [/i]

The mistake which is easily made, AC, is to imagine and accept that the HO is bright and can lead in a world/worlds in which the smarter being realises they lead with the free sharing of sensitive information and novel intelligence. Secrets hidden from general view and filed away in secure vaults and known to a select committee of a few are/is not where power and control lie and come from. Future globally shared content is that which trumps all and that which everything reacts to.

And the quite perfect enough vehicles for that are Invisible and Anonymous Intangible Networks InterNetworking JOINT Applications. ... ... ... .Creative Virtual Currents Phorming and Carrying Colossal Clouds with Titanic Rain for Perfect Storms. ... ... ... which when bottled and marketed for sale has the distinct fragrance and unmistakeable air of Enigma Station XSSXXXX Ware about IT.[/blockquote]

*HO = Home Office ... .Click to view link

One normally only goes into government whenever one cannot make it in the real world and one must rely on inventing scams which support projects and programs which pilfer from the public purse and impoverish nations?

Sure only a couple of days ago, did Austere Britain which is told it is in serious debt and has no money to spare for essential and failing services at home, loan the IMF another 10,000,000,000 to raise the earlier gift to a total now of 40,000,000,000. And everyone knows that wars are not cheap and are horrendously expensive but the muppets and puppets in government have no problem with rushing headlong into armed conflict with anyone who has inferior toys and weapons and natural resources it covets.

But such skullduggery only last a short while while people are ignorant of the ploy. Education and better intelligence sets them free to create a whole new picture with many new orderly worlds in which to play Greater Games.

"Barter and alternative exchange happens between people"

Next headline... "Finally, man back to Ice Age hunting and killing, hand-to-mouth economy"

Devolution...

Headline:

"Barter and alternative exchange happens between people"

F^~% the bank(s)? why of bourse IT will/should.

Evolution...

Hacktivists in the frontline battle for the internet
Click to view link

John Perry Barlow, lyricist for the Grateful Dead and co-founder of the well-known advocacy group Electronic Frontiers Foundation (EFF), says the over-arching motivation of such efforts, whatever tactics are used, was to shift the nature of society.

"What unites these groups is the belief that the future is not about vertical, hierarchical government, but horizontal [peer-to-peer] government," he said. "This pits the forces of the information age against those of the industrial age, as we move from scarcity of information to abundance. The last year has established our ability to have revolutions, but not to govern in their wake - but that's coming."

[..]

Barlow is planning the establishment of a foundation aimed at funding any organisations affected by corporate blockades with first amendment implications.

"We hope it makes a moral argument against these sorts of actions," he says. "But it could also be the basis of a legal challenge. We now have private organisations with the ability to stifle free expression. These companies have no bill of rights that applies to their action - they only have terms of service."

Spain is just followng the USA... We put limits on cash too. Try taking it out of the USA and if you draw cash to buy a car... well,it might take days to get it!

Spain has its own ways of doing things. First, Spaniards don't pay taxes until they are caught. Second, the Spanish peseta was a great second currency for all kinds of northern Europeans to hold when their own "cash" was in question and there has been a continuing market in those "old" bills ever since. This is the only Spanish cash the Spanish government can interdict! Have you all forgotten that the Euro, even in Spain, is now european universal!

The PIGS are playing with bank accounts, not cash. The moves in Italy and Spain now are aimed not at Italians and Spaniards, but at the others living amongst them... .all the rest of the world. If you have a home in either country and you, of necessity, must pay bills in your home country... well you are going to get nailed!

No one travels today with cash. It is all cards. Most transactions are below the amounts being set so it is all cautionary, not actual. The people who may have to pay are those who have extravagant tastes or perhaps trying to transfer money by buying elsewhere some item easily returned for cash. The tax on those transfers will have a deleterious effect on the high end luxury business but it will be the same on both sides of the borders so it is that business' problem, not ours.

We have been watching PR in action, not economics!

Reply from The Daily Bell

We were in Spain. What's going on is not PR.

"Spain Bans Cash Transactions Over 2,500 Euros ... "

Big woopdy doo... ..

Try deposit or withdraw more than $5,000 per day in the U.S. How about a headline for that... ???

Just talking only talking and nothing betre than talking . There is no as action. The fera is the King and the slaverny is the new religion ! yes will be what I've said 17 yeras ago : worst then all Stalinisme al together !

Western so-called 'democracies' have lost touch with reality and are increasingly disconnected from the constituents they are supposed to serve.

If these governments want to survive, they would be well advised to go down to the streets and LISTEN to what the population is saying, lest they become irrelevant.

Banning cash will ultimately result in their own demise. You simply can't go against natural law: people will find a way to keep on doing what they want, government or not.

Witness the Greeks, who are reintroducing a computer assisted barter system. What better way to completely bypass the tyrannical money system that to establish a parallel, virtual currency system, since the existing one is all virtual anyway, except that is is controlled by the power elite.

Millions of people don't seem to be capable of critical thinking as proved in the election of 2008 in America.

Not for nothing, but Revelation, chapter 11 speaks of a "CASHLESS SOCIETY" in the LAST DAYS OF MAN. Imagine that? Just saying...

"the infrastructure that politicos built over the past decade. Every small town has bike paths, outdoor parks and other unnecessary public venues that will soon prove, well ... unsupportable."

Politicos are bankster tools. Banksters want their tax donkeys to carry a load one pound short of back-breaking. Underloaded tax donkeys bear mute testimony to the most mortal of bankster sins - "leaving money on the table."

From a bankster perspective, public place infrastructure is a necessary evil. Merely an excuse to foist debt onto tax donkeys then drain the donkeys with yet another AAA muni bond repayment stream.

Selecting the proper excuse is more of an art than a science. Exploiting the dreams of the young proves particularly effective at inducing guilt. Olympic Games with attendant opulent venues, arguably rank as one of the better schemes. For only a heartless miser can say "No!" to the dreams of young Olympians.

It's a perfect scheme. Billions in loans to finance structures used for less than a month. The loans remain standing even if the buildings fall.

Mass media's inevitable "white elephant" brainstorming follows as surely as fall follows summer. Re-imagineering roles for structures that are only suited for providing Olympic venues.

Reply from The Daily Bell

This is very good.

kenn, howdy,

Have you any idea how much evidence has been, and is being collected to justify burying the corrupted and outdated elite systems in the holes they are digging, for a new regime to seamlessly take over with a completely new program with entirely different protocols and methodologies, should anyone crawl out of nowhere, totally oblivious to all that has transpired, to ask for justification?

It is overwhelming.

What's happening in Europe today is a window as to what will happen in the USA soon. Except not only will all cash transactions over a couple thousand US Dollars be banned, rather ALL cash transactions PERIOD will be banned!! No more hiding cash under the mattress (because you fear oncoming bank insolvency). The Federal Government via the IRS will be able to track EVERY penny you spend and what you spend it on. (You don't like Obama or the Democrats & you give to their opposition: JAIL FOR YOU!!... or visa-versa if the big Statist Republicans win control back again).

Not only how you spend your money, but I read yesterday they want to put "black boxes" in cars by 2015. With black boxes & GPS, the Feds can track your every move if they later decide to do so.

We live in a Police State. Our freedoms are about gone. I'm not hopeful that the dumbed-down, government educated & brainwashed sheeple in America will put up much of a fight. They don't know what they lost!

I agree with you, people will not revolt. As to those who can read they belong to the elite and they don't really care. Another point, what's the percentage of the population is Spain that is able to systematically fork EUR 2,500 in cash? Divide and conquer is still a valid principle.

Maybe the elites are shooting them selves in the foot? €2500 equals to 2 oz of gold. Barter,anyone?

Note how they (Banksters) demolish one state at a time... First Greece,,, Now Spain,,, Next Italy or whoever... yet no united resistance from the victims! In Greece they're burning their own homes and businesses while their government laughs and invokes more tyranny. If I was to burn something it sure as heck won't be 'my home or business'...

which leads to your question:

Do they believe that people cannot read ... or think? Do they believe people will hold their aggregate resentment in check forever? There seems to be a kind of baiting going on, and it may not end well.

IMO and from what has transpired so far... . a resounding Yes (government educated!), Yes and Yes.

Baiting? Maybe,,, More like taking the point (military vernacular). Basically "Do something,,, See what happens,,, then do something else"

So far their low opinions of the 'little people' seem pretty much on target.

Who in their right mind is even going to think about repaying crazily created debt ... ... ... ... Click to view link

And check out the other graphic illustrations at the bottom of the web page too, to get a sense of the foolishness of pretending that the system is not just a means of perverse control of the ignorant.

The problem now though is, that the masses are being educated and are getting wise to the scams which have them as puppets to third party directed fates rather than masters of their own destinies. And boy oh boy, are they gonna have a field day when that reaches its tipping point/reaches critical mass.