STAFF NEWS & ANALYSIS
Vaccine Denial: A Modest Proposal to Reduce the Controversy
By Staff News & Analysis - March 04, 2015

Vaccine Refusal Is Like Drunken Driving … Should you get your kids vaccinated against measles? Of course you should. You shouldn't do this, however, because it is risk-free. Drugs can have side effects, and although those documented for the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine are either minor or extremely rare, the risk of something bad happening isn't zero. And although the belief in a link between the MMR vaccine and autism is a superstition foisted upon the world by a showboating British doctor who has since lost his medical license, there may well be links between the vaccine and other maladies that we just don't know about yet. – Bloomberg

Dominant Social Theme: Vaccines are an important component in a healthy life.

Free-Market Analysis: These days we are noticing a number of articles in defense of vaccines. That can only mean one thing: The vaccine rate in the West and particularly in the US is likely continuing to fall.

Blame it on the Internet. This digital Gutenberg Press has revealed other perspectives on a variety of social promotions, from the efficacy of public schooling to the necessity for central banking to the fallacious core conclusions of global warming.

But it seems that the anti-vaccine movement is the one that is striking the most terror into the collective heart of the establishment. (Circumcision rates are well down, too, but that's a story for another day.)

Here's more:

For a long time, the risk of encountering measles in the U.S. didn't amount to much either. Thanks to near-universal vaccination, measles and other once-deadly childhood diseases had become vanishingly rare. I met a pediatrician 15 years ago who had refused to let her kids go through the standard childhood vaccination cycle. She knew perfectly well that if lots of people followed her example it would be dangerous. But she also knew from her work as a doctor that everybody else in her community vaccinated their kids, so she figured hers were safe.

She was, in economic terms, a free rider — taking advantage of a public good to which she didn't contribute. It was a terribly selfish choice, but it was also arguably a rational one. At least, it was back then.

Now, however, thanks to the rise of vaccine skepticism, the risk of encountering several of these childhood diseases in the U.S. has been growing, especially if you live in the hotbed of unconventional belief that is Southern California.

The article goes on in this vein and, of course, good points are made. Vaccines do seem to have an impact on reducing disease. But this drags us into a larger argument. There are charts and graphs on the Internet that seem to show that various diseases were almost eradicated BEFORE the specific vaccine came along. Measles is one such disease. Polio another.

Those who rebut these charges explain the numbers are manipulated and that vaccines have had a significant impact on disease reduction. It is difficult to tell from the numbers where the truth lies (at least not fully) but even granted the efficacy of vaccines, there is considerable controversy.

Additionally, from what we're able to tell, certain vaccines still aren't double-blind tested before being released to the public. And when it comes to the flu vaccine, the numbers are a good deal more definitive – and disastrously so. The flu vaccine often seems to cause more trouble than it's worth.

The influenza epidemic of the early 20th century is often cited as a justification for continuing the modern flu immunization campaign. But reports from that epoch seem to indicate that the vaccines were given to weakened veterans just emerging from the trenches of World War I. These vets then carried the disease across the world as they returned home.

Additionally, there are certain reports that seem to indicate the vaccine itself was old and damaged. A spoiled vaccine; weakened immune systems; a population that spread the disease around the world – this sort of paradigm likely will not take place again, hopefully not, anyway. Nonetheless, the "Spanish flu" remains the template justifying modern campaigns.

The article predictably makes another attempt to debunk the autism-vaccine link even though the eyewitness accounts we've read seem believable. Over and over you can find statements on the 'Net posted at relevant sites that explain how tots are subjected to vaccine cocktails and turn up mute the next day.

Granted, such narratives are apocryphal but the repetition is numbingly predictable. The medical "community" fights back against these tales by claiming that no matter the number, the relationship is coincidental.

Yet vaccines are injurious, as the article has the grace to admit. Vaccine courts in the US and now Italy have awarded damages to families whose children have been severely injured by vaccines – and some of these damages seem to have been awarded as regards autism itself.

There is also the issue of large populations such as the Amish who have a goodly number of unvaccinated – and yet, coincidentally no doubt, have little autism. Shouldn't the Amish be riddled with whooping cough, measles, etc? Perhaps the Amish are protected via the relative high rates of vaccination taking place around them. They are "free riders," in other words.

This is a term that the article uses, and it is one that the writer seeks to drag to the foreground to pursue his case that avoiding vaccines for oneself or one's kids is as irresponsible as drunken driving.

Yet we can remember a time when drunken driving was not prosecuted because the police didn't check for it. But then came breathalyzers, painted lines to walk across and even mandatory blood-taking. What was marginally a laudable activity – at least some could make that argument – has morphed in some cases (along with so many other do-gooding enterprises) into something a good deal more invasive.

The article concludes by stating that "Americans may have to get a lot more first-hand experience of measles epidemics before the vaccine skeptics (and their political enablers) catch a clue." But again, most of the examples the article cites are at least controversial.

Which brings us to our main point. Many anti-vaxxers are quite knowledgeable about vaccines and are well aware of various controversies. To present – as this article does – statements that have considerable controversy attached to them likely only inflames the debate.

After Thoughts

If the pro-vaccine community really wants to make a difference, it could start by telling the truth, the real historical truth – or at least more than one side of it. There are considerable questions about vaccines and their history not included in the mainstream narrative.

Posted in STAFF NEWS & ANALYSIS
  • The greatest modern pandemic started in Kansas in 1917 and was spread world wide by the arrogance of progressive Woody Wilson who refused traditional quarantine protocols, who shipped thousands of infected draftees on unheated rail cars and open ship decks to the poison gas trenches of the Western Front. The 1917 Espionage Act made it illegal for any US news outlet to report the disease or the death tolls. Similar news restrictions in France, Germany and the UK meant the disease did not have a name until thousands died in Madrid, making it the Spanish Flu. An excellent history of this is “The Great Influenza” by John M Barry, including the Rockefeller creation of the AMA as a monopolist, Big Pharma rubber stamp. The Bloomberg mentioned UK doctor is Dr Andrew Wakefield, with peer reviewed research, published in the Lancet, until the Murdoch editor realized that Murdoch had substantial holdings in Merck, the MMR manufacturer. Evidence suggests that the recently approved aspirin was used to control fever during the Spanish flu increased mortality, as many symptoms indicate aspirin poisoning. Fever is one of the bodies natural defense mechanisms and should be allowed below the danger limits. With the Russian revolution of 1917, Germany could have fought on for years, but the loss of a million soldiers to flu is the real reason for ‘peace’ pause of Versailles.

    Wakefield has been vindicated by whistleblowers, see “CDC You’re Fired, Autism Coverup Exposed” by Dr Kelly Brogan, MD. Also read “How Vaccine Hysteria Could Spark Totalitarian Nightmare” by Dr Lee Hieb, MD at WND.com and Dr Russell Blaylock site VaccineTruth.org, along with Dr Sherri Tenpenny and NaturalNews sites. Approximately 90% of the US vaccine supply is manufactured in third world, slave state, toxic waste dump countries with an annual, one day, prescheduled FDA recertification inspections.

    If you can review this evidence and do not have questions about the efficacy, purity and safety of monopolist Magic Medicine Men, then you deserve forced vaccination.

    • Vaccine manufactures are exempt from any liability for government ORDERED vaccines, hence CFR puppet, Texas Governor Perry’s illegal executive order for all teen girls to have the dangerous Gardasil HPV vaccine as a gift to Merck, the HPV tamer.

    • Earn nest

      I knew three women who’d survived this in Oklahoma by bathing in something called “smartweed;” they all lived past 100 but I never discovered what that plant actually was.

    • Lyn Morris

      …really good consolidation of some well known, publicized facts. Unfortunately, even those having been ‘damaged’ by vaccines cannot see how their problems are vaccine related. I have a friend who suffers radically from narcolepsy since her late teens. Even reading the drug inserts where narcolepsy can be caused after such vaccinations….she refuses to stop them, even for her child! They say you can lead the horse to water, but……

  • disqus_q0fJBDaGHm

    This is another typical pro-vaccine article, designed to instill fear and other emotions. The article should start by “telling the historical truth” instead of the hysterical truth. Such historical truth can be found by reading “Dissolving Illusions” which is essentially pure history compiled from articles, papers and government data from the past 200 years. Also be aware, that anyone who spews the herd bullshit is already full of crap, like the writer of this article. These are the same whores that go against any forms of health and healing beyond the main$tream. And, don’t believe the bullshit about Dr.Wakefield. His PEER REVIEWED paper was published and he is right.

    • Presumably you’re commenting on the Bloomberg article. If so, we agree.

      • Guest

        Yikes… The third one of these comments? Perhaps a “disclaimer” mighty be in order for “emotional topics” new readers might wander in on? Afterall, the DST and even “meme” discussion… is foreign to many. 😉

  • typodrive

    Watch this then see the movie “Bought”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQJ1XdA60dQ

  • Earn nest

    Anyone who has known a child that got vaccinated then turned autistic needs no convincing. Or one that received paralysis, not to say polio from that vaccine.

    • Gil G

      More likely a child is having a mini trauma episode because they’re too young to understand getting jabbed by a scary-looking grown up is a good thing. It’s even possible the child was always autistic but getting vaccinated was the child’s first test of adversity.

      • Earn nest

        You haven’t seen it.

        • Gil G

          Neither have you.

      • william scott

        Hey Gil, why don’t you invest a few hours of your time on YouTube (key- in say: “autism caused by vaccines” ) and then return with a “broader perspective,” on the subject… The FACTS are afterall, merely that.

        • Danny B

          Gil, doesn’t need a broader perspective. He gets paid to be a troll for the establishment.

  • Gary Lee

    The “Dominant Social Theme” here is utter bullroar. The theme should be, having a STRONG IMMUNE SYSTEM is the most important componenet to a healthy life. If your immune system is in perfect health, nothing can make you sick. Contrary to the old wive’s tales being bandied about by the lame-stream media (which, apparently, includes the Daly Bell), vaccines do NOT strengthen the immune system….they definetly weaken it. There is a superabundance of evidence to support this contention. Let’s stop with the shilling for the pharmeceutical industry, please. (The tenor of this article makes one wonder if the DB got PAID for publishing it.)

    • We have often written about naturopathy and the benefits of a strong immunine system versus the questionable benefits of artificially stimulating the system. You need to read DB regularly or you miss such things.

      • silversmith

        Thanks for the Forum DB.

      • Gil G

        By such reasoning it’s safe to say a well-nourished person is more likely to survive a savaging attack by wild dogs than an under-nourished person. Technically true but pretending diseases are a case of simply being weak is nuttier than a fruit cake.

        • Ok, again, your certainties amaze. You are convinced that someone with a “strong” immune system has no advantage over illness as compared to a sickly person.Or don’t you believe immune systems can be compromised?

          • Gil G

            They have advantages but only to a certain extent. As said a healthy person is more likely to survive a serious injury than an unhealthy person however it clear New Age Nutters see disease as a some sort of bodily failures instead of being attacked by bacteria and viruses. I rather have a shot against tetanus than assume I’ll do better surviving tetanus than someone from the Third World.

          • Wish we had your ability to believe what we’re told. Were you in the military by any chance?

          • Robert Quickert

            Facile, and conspiracy. “Wish you had an ability to evaluate science” is just as petulant, but true. Whether someone was in the military or not is a non-sequitur and an ad hominem: it does not rebut their argument.

          • We weren’t making an argument. Just inquiring.

          • Robert Quickert

            Then we agree: a person’s background is irrelevant to their statements or arguments?

          • Gil G

            Without modern medicine you’re going to say “people did just fine” – except they didn’t as most people died in infancy. Even if you made into adulthood a simple cut could still kill you. Living all natural can’t save you because New Worlders died en masse when the European arrived. In fact it was the mass deaths from infectious diseases that made it possible the Europeans to conquer the Americas.

  • Diane H

    Over $2.8 B has been awarded to victims and their families from vaccine injury and death. This is the Federal government paying the awards, not the vaccine makers. Pharmaceutical makers bear no liability for death or injury from their “products.” Enough said.

    • Over $2.8 B has been awarded to victims and their families from vaccine injury and death.

      How is this fact proof of anything other than the triumph of “junk science” in American tort law generally? Were the federal program to backstop these awards discontinued, and the vaccine manufacturers required to shoulder the costs thereof, it can be expected that those cases would be contested bitterly rather than serving the plaintiff’s bar as easy money.

      Surely, the one lobbying group most vehemently contending against the closure of this business about “the Federal government paying the awards” would have to be shysters of ATLA.

      • Diane H

        You are denying death and injuries from vaccines, amazing!
        End of discussion.

        • Gil G

          Yes I am. Certainly it’s good to find out what really went wrong. It’s most likely a case that a vaccine exposed an underlying condition and if it weren’t for the vaccine then something else would’ve triggered it.

          • fenwick’s in the manger

            Cite the cases Gil. Link to the cases.

            Side note… it still amazes me to see the ancient and, still much used, ‘divide & conquer’ methodology working so well. I smell tribalism, divide and conquer, and good ol’ brainwashing at work in Gil’s frontal lobe. Possibly, a cash depository in Gil’s pocket from some private company at work for an alphabet soup gov dept.

            See Gil, no one, even you like to be wrongly accused. Facts Gil, show your work.

            Have a good weekend and remember, the best things in life are free. Like the chance to choose the direction in our own lifes.

          • Gil G

            No it’s the natural crowd who must be the paid trolls since quackery makes big bucks without having to cure people. I said it would be good to find why a few take a bad reaction to vaccination – I didn’t say I knew what it was except isn’t the “vaccines are poison” canard made by the Big Natural industry complex.

        • And your non-reply reply is relevant to anything other than your own blithering idiocy?

          Liability law (in its present perversion, as manifest in American courts) is a concept that’s totally beyond your understanding, is it?

          • william scott

            Her “blithering idiocy,” eh? And who else agrees with that opinion, here?? Or the London BAR association of utter fools, masquerading as “lawyers…” who’s time in the sun, is about to END. Give “Tuci” a thumbs UP…

          • Danny B

            I gave her a thumbs up. I’m willing to give Gil a lobotomy,, for free.

    • Gil G

      Creationists have also found it better to inhabit the courts and school boards to have their own way than to use science.

      • silversmith

        It’s the American way

      • silversmith

        This is how the corporatocracy has taken over this country!

      • Diane H

        Not nice to deny harms from vaccine injury & death, already proven in court. Use of non sequitur is infantile, as is denial or ignorance.
        End of discussion.

        • Gil G

          Studies can’t find any link between vaccines and injury but lawyers play on sympathy and logical fallacies to sway judges and juries.

          • william scott

            Studies sponsored / skewed by WHOM? Who do you work for “Gil??” The average IQ / EQ here is 130+ so you’re clearly wasting your time / keystrokes…

          • Robert Quickert

            “Who do you work for “Gil??” ”. A pharmacy shill gambit. The millions of scientists, regulators, medical doctors, commenters, they’ve all been bought. Or—occam’s razor—the simple truth is: vaccines work, far in excess of their risks. Period. That the average IQ/EQ is so high is doubtful, as the arguments made betray a lack of knowledge of elemntary logic.

          • Diocletian

            Given the enormity of government intrusion and control over the medical care industry and scientific research, and the plethora of laws that enforce the “comply or die” directive (i.e. comply with directives and propaganda concerning the “safety” of vaccines, or die professionally–or literally, by being murdered) upon all who are involved in those fields, and the simplicity of the directly perceivable facts of the harmfulness of vaccines attested to by abundant sound (reality-based) scientific research, Occam’s Razor supports the latter over the former. Your arguments in defense of state-sanctioned coercive vaccination–and coercion as a means of any other statist end–fail to make a valid case for slavery as a means to any end. I and my children are not government property; therefore, I will continue to defy–by deadly self-defense if necessary–all laws that command me or my children to be vaccinated. Period.

          • Robert Quickert

            The reality is that you live in a society, not alone. Society has responsibilities as well as rights. Vaccines are one of those responsibilities for your children (you as an adult can make up your own mind about yourself). As for “simplicity of the directly perceivable facts of the harmfulness of vaccines attested to by abundant sound (reality-based) scientific research”, this is nonsense: we based medical decisions on science, not inferior standards we choose at will, and the science overwhelmingly supports vaccines.

          • Simply making assertions does not prove your point. The issue is complicated.

            —–

            The Deadly Impossibility Of Herd Immunity Through Vaccination, by Dr. Russell Blaylock
            – February 18, 2012Posted in: Articles
            Print Friendly Version of this pagePrint Get a PDF version of this webpagePDF

            Those who are observant have noticed a dangerous trend in the United States, as well as worldwide, and that is the resorting of various governments at different levels to mandating forced vaccination upon the public at large. My State of Mississippi has one of the most-restrictive vaccine-exemption laws in the United States, where exemptions are allowed only upon medical recommendation. Ironically, this is only on paper, as many have had as many as three physicians, some experts in neurological damage caused by vaccines, provide written calls for exemption, only to be turned down by the State’s public-health officer.

            Worse are the States, such as Massachusetts, New Jersey and Maryland, where forced vaccinations have either been mandated by the courts, the state legislature, or have such legislation pending. All of such policies strongly resemble those policies found in National Socialist empires, Stalinist countries, or Communist China.

            When public-health officers are asked for the legal justification for such draconian measures as forcing people to accept vaccines that they deem either a clear and present danger to themselves and their loved ones or have had personal experience with serious adverse reactions to such vaccines, they usually resort to the need to protect the public.

            One quickly concludes that if the vaccines are as effective as being touted by the public-health officials, then why should one fear the unvaccinated? Obviously the vaccinated would have at least 95% protection. This question puts them in a very difficult position. Their usual response is that a “small” percentage of the vaccinated will not have sufficient protection and would still be at risk. Now, if they admit what the literature shows, that vaccine failure rates are much higher than the 5% they claim, they must face the next obvious question – then why should anyone take the vaccine if there is a significant chance it will not protect?

            When pressed further, they then resort to their favorite justification, the Holy Grail of the vaccine proponents – herd immunity. This concept is based upon the idea that 95% (and some now say 100%) of the population must be vaccinated to prevent an epidemic. The percentages needing vaccination grows progressively. I pondered this question for some time before the answer hit me. Herd immunity is mostly a myth and applies only to natural immunity – that is, contracting the infection itself.

            Is Herd Immunity Real?

            In the original description of herd immunity, the protection to the population at large occurred only if people contracted the infections naturally. The reason for this is that naturally-acquired immunity lasts for a lifetime. The vaccine proponents quickly latched onto this concept and applied it to vaccine-induced immunity. But, there was one major problem – vaccine-induced immunity lasted for only a relatively short period, from 2 to 10 years at most, and then this applies only to humoral immunity. This is why they began, silently, to suggest boosters for most vaccines, even the common childhood infections such as chickenpox, measles, mumps, and rubella.

            Then they discovered an even greater problem, the boosters were lasting for only 2 years or less. This is why we are now seeing mandates that youth entering colleges have multiple vaccines, even those which they insisted gave lifelong immunity, such as the MMR. The same is being suggested for full-grown adults. Ironically, no one in the media or medical field is asking what is going on. They just accept that it must be done.

            That vaccine-induced herd immunity is mostly myth can be proven quite simply. When I was in medical school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.

            If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.

            When we examine the scientific literature, we find that for many of the vaccines protective immunity was 30 to 40%, meaning that 70% to 60% of the public has been without vaccine protection. Again, this would mean that with a 30% to 40% vaccine-effectiveness rate combined with the fact that most people lost their immune protection within 2 to 10 year of being vaccinated, most of us were without the magical 95% number needed for herd immunity. This is why vaccine defenders insist the vaccines have 95% effectiveness rates.

            Without the mantra of herd immunity, these public-health officials would not be able to justify forced mass vaccinations. I usually give the physicians who question my statement that herd immunity is a myth a simple example. When I was a medical student almost 40 years ago, it was taught that the tetanus vaccine would last a lifetime. Then 30 years after it had been mandated, we discovered that its protection lasted no more than 10 years. Then, I ask my doubting physician if he or she has ever seen a case of tetanus? Most have not. I then tell them to look at the yearly data on tetanus infections – one sees no rise in tetanus cases. The same can be said for measles, mumps, and other childhood infections. It was, and still is, all a myth.

            The entire case for forced mass vaccination rest upon this myth and it is important that we demonstrate the falsity of this idea. Neil Z. Miller, in his latest book The Vaccine Information Manual, provides compelling evidence that herd immunity is a myth.

            etc.

            See: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

            – See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/#sthash.Nu8lxs3f.dpuf

          • william scott

            Elementary LOGIC: The health risks associated with vaccines (using MERCURY as an aduvant) outweigh any (potential) benefit 100:1+.

          • Robert Quickert

            Mercury is not used as an adjuvant. Thimerosal, a compound including one form of mercury, does. That is the difference between Chlorine (highly reactive, toxic as a gas) and table salt (essential for life). Thimerosal has been studied around the world by countless bodies. It is not an issue with vaccines. Period. Debunked. Overwhelming evidence it is safe. The parrot is no more. Repeating the argument, so often debunked, does not somehow give it truthfulness.

          • Simply making assertions does not prove your point. The issue is complicated.

            —–

            THIMEROSAL AND VACCINES: WHAT YOUR DOC WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE

            TeacherBy Tim Kasemodel

            As an autism parent who actively educates others on thimerosal and the vaccine schedule I am constantly amazed at how misinformed the general public is. I went to our local (ex) pediatric clinic and asked what information they give on thimerosal to parents who ask. I was given a handout that you can read HERE and quickly understood.

            Anyone who would take this information at face value would of course come away thinking we are all nuts, especially our local, State and Federal elected officials. As a proud member of A-Champ and the Minnesota Natural Health Legal Reform Project, I felt the need to identify each false or misleading answer to each question in detail. In a good faith effort to give the Minnesota Department of Health the opportunity to back off the opposition of HF 1917 and SF 1780 Preference for Mercury Free Vaccines, I have not made this a public document. After a January meeting with Minnesota’s new Health Commissioner proved their opposition will continue, I feel it is time to put this into the hands of the misinformed. Now that the busy Minnesota legislative session has ended, each of the 201 members of the House and Senate will soon receive this in their office in-box. Just a little reminder that our legislation will be re-introduced in 2009 and that we are not going away.

            Whether they read it or not will yet to be seen, but I suspect it will not be long before it makes its way to the MDH offices.

            Rebuttal of Misleading Statements

            From Minnesota Department of Health Parents and Patients Handout:
            Thimerosal and Childhood Vaccines: What You Should Know

            By Tim Kasemodel, Minnesota Natural Health Legal Reform Project

            Is there thimerosal in childhood vaccines today?

            MDH: Since 2001, all routinely recommended vaccines (except for the flu vaccine) currently being made for administration to young children in the U.S. contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts.

            MNHLRP: This statement is misleading because it implies that “only trace amounts” of mercury in a vaccine, (which can mean as much as 2,000 parts per billion), is not a concern. Studies on the mercury in thimerosal have shown it to be toxic at much lower concentrations, causing cell impairment, damage and death. Using the terms “all” and “except” in the same sentence is not only misleading, it is simply bad grammar.

            It is important to note from the beginning the interchangeable use of the terms child, childhood, children, and young children without any clarification of the ages involved. The recommended childhood vaccine schedule is broken down into the birth to age 6 group, and the 7 to 17 group. While most of this handout relates only to the younger age group, it is not clearly stated. This could mislead a reader to believe reasonably enough that all of the information relates to children up thru age 17.

            What is Thimerosal?

            MDH: Thimerosal is an organic mercury-based preservative used in some vaccines, including some influenza vaccines. Thimerosal contains ethyl mercury. This is not the same as the methyl mercury found in fish or emitted by power plants. It has been used as a preservative since the 1930s to prevent contamination in vials containing multiple doses of a vaccine and other medical products. Federal agencies have guidelines to make sure no child will receive excessive mercury from childhood vaccines or other medical products. Thimerosal is also found in other medical products such as some throat and nose sprays.

            MNHLRP: Stating that ethyl mercury and methyl mercury are different with no explanation seems intended to mislead the reader into believe that ethyl mercury is safe. While federal agencies do have exposure guidelines, these are based on methyl mercury. There are no exposure guidelines based on ethyl mercury. The intentional separation of ethyl mercury from methyl mercury, yet at the same time using exposure guidelines for methyl mercury to assess the safety of ethyl mercury is misleading.

            The FDA’s justification for safety of thimerosal exposure for infants under current recommendations is that the total possible exposure of 28 micrograms by 7 months of age is “significantly below the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) calculated exposure guideline for methyl mercury of 65 micrograms during the first 6 months of life for a child in the fifth percentile body weight.” The word “during” indicates the calculation was made based on the daily weight of this baby multiplied by the daily exposure limit, calculated each day, then totaled after 6 months. However, the EPA exposure guidelines are 0.1 mcg per kilogram body weight per day. For a 20 pound infant, the 65 micrograms calculated to be safe by the FDA would be 72 times more than allowed that day. The 12.5 micrograms of mercury in each of the mandatory two flu shots is actually 14 times more than the EPA guidelines for the average 6 month old.

            This is the same as the FDA accepting that giving 8400 mgs of Tylenol (three 1 oz. bottles) all at one time at 6 months and another 8400 mgs at 7 months of age is “SAFE” because the baby could have received 43,200 mgs now that he is 180 days old.

            What is a trace amount?

            MDH: Thimerosal is still used in the early stages of manufacturing of a few vaccines to ensure the production line is sterile, but is removed through a purification process, with only a trace, or insignificant, amounts remaining. This is different than the few vaccines that contain thimerosal as a preservative. The thimerosal in vaccines is left in after production to prevent contamination when multi-dose vaccines are used.

            A few vaccines still contain a trace amount of thimerosal but manufacturers are working to remove this trace even though the FDA considers these vaccines to be thimerosal free.

            MNHLRP: Calling mercury concentrations of 600 to 2000 parts per billion “insignificant” is outright and patently false. Liquids with 200 ppb mercury or higher is considered hazardous waste. Mercury concentrations as low as one fifth of one part per billion have been shown to negatively affect enzymes necessary for the removal of mercury itself from the body. A fetus or newborn infant does not even have the ability to detoxify heavy metal exposure, so it remains with yet unstudied consequences. There is no evidence that shows that mercury exposure, of any kind or concentration, does not cause harm to living tissue.

            Stating that trace level mercury containing vaccines are “considered by the FDA to be preservative free” gives the impression that the FDA has rigorously tested thimerosal and proven it is safe at trace amounts, which they or the manufacturer have not done at all. In fact, the FDA has no substantive proof that thimerosal is safe at any dosage or concentration.

            etc.

            See: http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/06/thimerosal-and.html

          • william scott

            I believe the last two paragraphs, along with the deceptive science… using methyl vs. ethyl mercury and misleading age and weight (which are still arbitrary guidelines, at best…) comparisons, makes the obvious point? (i.e. that they haven’t even DONE the studies on the compound/s used… then the paid- off in advance FDA rubber stamps the IP’d patent / TM / copywrite / s, to the tune of a few hundred million $.USD+ AS PAR = bought and paid for corpra QUACKERY, at best…

          • william scott

            Thimerosal is a MERCURY based (i.e. branded… so they could PATENT it, for profit) compound. Mercury causes the systems and results demonstrated in autism, auto immune diseases and a whole host of other ailments… most likely developed because of a “compromised” immune system / response… as does say, mercury amalgam dental filings, as another example of STUPIDITY in quack science and industry buying off government (lack of) oversight. Industrial (waste) Fluoride is another excellent example. So is (toxic waste) “heavy oil” diesel fuel. The list, is very LONG…

            As for “mercury is not used as an adjuvant. Thimerosal, a compound including one form of mercury, does.” What part of “thimerosal” is basically rebranded MERCURY, used in massive amounts (i.e. 25,000 PPM per dose) given to INFANTS (as well as adults given flu inoculations, now…) doesn’t “click,” with you??? This IS the problem with “for profit” Fascist governments buying into quack “patented science” for PROFIT… The most basic “common sense” is thrown OUT, in favor of “patented solutions” that will will NEVER trump natural ones. PERIOD… One cannot isolate an “active ingredient” and harness the “result” the entire plant compound achieves in it’s whole / raw form… Modern “Pharma,” is an utter FAILURE… Either we take the “PROFIT FIRST” perspective of the (disease, health, longevity) picture, and “get healthy…” or we PERISH as a species? This is the main ISSUE, afterall… People, animals, the planet should NOT be used as “guinea pigs” of short- sided “corporations.” And PEOPLE must be ACCOUNTABLE for their ACTIONS, vs. hiding behind business and government entities. This is the CRUX of the nearly endless problems we now FACE.

            “Debunked. Overwhelming evidence. Repeating the argument, does not somehow give it truthfulness.” AGREED…

          • Gil G

            You dare quote Occam’s razor and then assume there’s a worldwide medical conspiracy? Yep you’re lucky enough to be born in a part of the world where your quackery won’t get yourself poisoned.

          • Robert Quickert

            You misunderstand. I do not think there is a conspiracy. Vaccines work.

          • Danny B
  • Rrust

    My guess is that there is a sizable fraction of the world population that believe all government is inherently evil, despite there being different visible levels corresponding to different places and moments of history.

    Is it surprising that we, these government-doubters, perceive an enormous danger in allowing government to get anywhere near the creation-distribution-control of the vaccination phenomenon?

    The potential for vast and devastating results to all humanity seems overwhelming. The dangers are vastly greater than the hoped-for benefits… and there is the lurking suspicion any “humane benefits” that have occurred, have been designed solely to create the vaccination-benefit-perception in the public mind… to create public trust.

    Even if one finds there have been examples of great numbers of lives saved through vaccination, there is nonetheless an obligation to also perceive the vastness of the hazard; to plan for the nearly-inevitable governmental misuse of a powerful weapon and mass personality-shaper.

  • john cummins

    I just can’t get away from the “drunk” driving issue. What we have no are cameras, militarized cops making stops, quotas, everything BUT getting bad drivers off the road. No laws are needed for that. Just cops doing their “duty”. I commute on a daily basis and it is quite easy to see who is driving bad. The most often danger and hindrance is drivers moving slowly in the passing lane. Any cop worth his salt would immediately deal with this. No need for laws vs. reading newspapers, farding the face, texting, phoning, just simple police work. The same is true for “drunk” drivers. Sorry for the rambling and I agree on lack of evidence and/or some sanity in the vaccine “argument”. It all comes down to control and tyranny vs. freedom and “common sense”, when you get down to it. Are we honestly going to trust a government to inject us with substances that subsidizes legal/lethal child killing in the womb? Really????

    • john cummins

      I meant what we have NOW.

  • Gina

    The improved plumbing of the early 20th century, and the discovery that washing hands prevents transmission of bacteria is the cause of the decline in infectious diseases. They were already falling by half before vaccines were prominently used. Vaccines are not necessary. Good plumbing is! There is a particularly nasty plan called NAIP that is open for comment at the HHS that proposes adult vaccination plans with the help of the DOD. No facts to back up their statements that vaccines improve health conditions. Just pure propaganda. If you feel like reading and commenting check it out at https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/02/06/2015-02481/solicitation-of-written-comments-on-the-draft-national-adult-immunization-plan. I am sure they cannot be thinking of forcing adult vaccinations. Or are they?

    • Centurian

      You also should consider that dehydration was the principal killer of many people, especially children before the current era of medicine. Intravenous fluids alone save many patients that would have died 100 years ago.

    • william scott

      Unfortunately, they indeed ARE… And I can’t believe anyone still thinks it’s only “poor Africans, or Indians” who are on the hit list.

  • silversmith

    The CDC and FDA are captured agencys controlled by big pharma.lucrative careers are awarded to agency staff in the Pharma industry for favors such as compromised research, hiring from the industry to staff positions in the agencies that directly benefit the industry . The Author lacks critical background often inserting opinion for fact . As a start I recomend they peruse the archives at nomorefakenews.com

    • We’ve been writing about vaccines for over a decade and have personally interviewed Wakefield. We don’t lack “criticial background.”

      • silversmith

        My response was triggered by the crafty shilling for the industry . The article quoted espouses the argument presented by the vaccine industry (big pharma through its minions the AMA,FDA,CDC,LSM and their “experts” ) to shame nonparticipants into compliance with the established Mantra “Vaccines are a necessary component in a healthy life”
        To add to your “critical background ” I suggest you interview William Thompson about vaccine fraud at the CDC .

        • “Vaccines are a necessary component in a healthy life”

          This was the dominant social theme we were analyzing – not espousing. You may have a misunderstanding of what a DST is and why we present them and write about them. But they are fundamental to our style.

          • silversmith

            Interesting. Thank you.

  • Gil G

    Or more likely the magic of the internet and popular media that makes the likes of Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy seem as though they’re on par with medical professionals and they’re personal opinions magically become professional medical opinions. The notion that vaccines cause autism is long debunked but kept alive by quacks trying to ride the gravy train as long as possible.

    On the other hand, the measles declined because of better hygiene? In reality measles declined in the ’60s – long after modern hygiene had taken place. The diseases traditionally associated with poor living standards dissipated in the West during early 20th century as would be expected. Measles only started declining the modern era because of modern medicine, esp., vaccines. But then folks here would then complain if people don’t get measles they risk being worse off when it makes a comeback because of a weaker immune system.

    • You repeat the memes of mainstream medicine with great confidence.

      • Gil G

        You repeat junk medical “science” as fact.

        • Really? Cite an example.

          • Gil G

            Anti-vaccination for one. Then there’s naturopathy, homeopathy, chiropractics, etc.

          • So Big Pharma has all the answers? You sure?

          • Gil G

            Certainly the quacks don’t – that why they stay on the outside away from rigorous testing so they can peddle placebos that are somehow curative because they’re “natural.”

          • Apparently vaccines were not and sometimes still are not subject to “rigorous” double blind testing.

          • william scott

            And… if they were… 90%+ of their MARKET, would soon evaporate! (As would the livelihoods of most of the pro vaccine people, commenting here…) Furthermore, if they didn’t totally CONTROL the “testing…” and publishing, bully every other government to “independent” study worldwide, and most importantly control the publishing, editing and dissemination of nearly all forms of media, government, academia, etc. then their entire farce of a MATRIX would no doubt, collapse!

          • Gil G

            The science on Big Natural doesn’t sway from people assuming magic can cure their woes. Nothing says you’re quacks when you use the derogatory term “allopathy” for real medicine.

          • Robert Quickert

            Moderator, might I politely suggest that even posting such an argument, one that you could have answered in milliseconds of internet research—showing it is debunked—, is disingenuous.

          • Simply making assertions does not prove your point. The issue is complicated.

            —–

            The latest “argument” of vaccine rejectionists

            I blog in a variety of places with a variety of different audiences, but I am struck by the uniformity of the arguments of vaccine rejectionists. It’s not surprising, though, when you consider that they are not reaching their conclusions independently, but rather regurgitating seemingly “impressive” arguments they have read on vaccine rejection websites.

            The latest such “argument” is that the safety and efficacy of vaccines have never been proven because they have not been subjected to a controlled randomized double blind study against a placebo. This “argument” is designed to impress those with a minimal knowledge of statistics. In other words, it is designed to impress those who know enough statistics to realize that anecdotes are not a substitute for scientific studies and are familiar with the concept that a controlled randomized double blind study against a placebo is the “gold standard” in some areas of drug research.

            Unfortunately, they don’t know enough to realize that controlled randomized double blind studies are unethical in certain circumstances, including the testing of vaccines. So what is presented on vaccine rejection websites as a startling and inexplicable refusal of scientists to test vaccines is actually the inevitable result of complying with ethical rules for scientific investigations.

            etc.

            http://www.skepticalob.com/2009/10/latest-argument-of-vaccine.html

          • william scott

            Where did this guy come from? He makes similar comments on multiple subjects… none of which follow any line of researched / educated /common sense, LOGIC. He’s intentionally baiting you… Allopaths were dubbed “quacks,” which is precisely what they were (and to a large extent, still ARE) and he lumps NATUROPATHS in with homeopathy!?

          • Robert Quickert

            False dichotomy: the choice isn’t between big pharma, little phara, no pharma on the one hand, and quackery on the other. There is medicine that has strong scientific evidence, and the rest. Naturopathy, homeopathy, and most chiropractic falls in the latter.

          • Lyn Morris

            …..”Naturopathy, homeopathy, and most chiropractic falls in the latter.”

            Okay, until that last comment, I respectfully read your ‘opinions’, though not agreeing with same. You’ve crossed the line and given yourself away with the ‘quackery’ labeling.

          • william scott

            I suppose then that lumping everything that isn’t Allopathological / AMA / FDA endorsed together (i.e. all non “IP’d” medicines / treatments) are then the tools / trade of the modern “quack,” post Cannabis prohibition? No matter that natural remedies worked for thousands of years, FAR better than any compound /s isolated therefrom in a lab, then “patented” for the express / sole monetary benefit of a select few elitists? Medicine should have remained “not for profit…” and the BILLIONAIRES had better get OUT of the US before the SHTF… as we have them, to THANK for this despicable “system” of debt, misery and death… and we know who they are.

          • Robert Quickert

            “No matter that natural remedies worked for thousands of years, FAR better than any compound /s isolated therefrom in a lab”

            1. This is a fantasy. No natural remedy has cured measles, smallpox or other infectious diseases.

            2. We lived without electricity, chemistry, transportation, water provision and other inventions of the modern world too, thanks to science. Do you reject them too? It is a package deal: one cannot pick and choose which parts of science one wishes to accept. Arguing for a return to palaeolithic existence is ludicrous.

          • william scott

            TRUE… But most of these diseases were 95- 98% eradicated, by the time the measles vaccine was introduced, in 1963… Furthermore, many of the contracted cases since were due to either the vaccines themselves… or various / dubious, “outbreaks…” and are now VERY RARE in the “first world” until brought in… like say, EBOLA. Anyone with common sense can easily see the connection between “for profit” vaccines, fear marketing, falsified / inconclusive studies, FDA endorsements and CLEARLY increased / compromised immune deficiencies… and the VAST increases in autism and dozens of other diseases… due to chemical toxins, including practices such as using ethyl MERCURY as an adjuvant, in vaccines… This is nearly akin to the Allopath who poisoned / killed George Washington, by prescribing mercury, to cure him… or the IDIOT DDS who put 20 (?) 48- 52% mercury amalgam fillings in my teeth… because that was the protocol, and he never even questioned it, likely because he was mainly “in it for the money???”

            And I think this Amazon comment about sums it up, on Thimerasol: http://www.amazon.ca/Thimerosal-Evidence-Supporting-Immediate-Neurotoxin/dp/1632206013

            “When you are evaluating the message here, which you must do for the sake of your child’s health, think about this: 98% of people who want to get thimerasol out of vaccines are NOT “Anti-Vaccine” they want vaccines to be safer. And yet, you will notice that there are hysterical straw men arguments made accusing people who want safer vaccines to be ‘anti-vaccine.” And don’t give me the “thimerasol is now absent from children’s vaccines since 2001,” argument… as the info the DB posted below, eviscerates…

            Furthermore, not unlike ANTIBIOTICS… giving people “what if” inoculations for non- life threatening diseases (measles, for example) that might affect them, is beyond the pale… since this also doesn’t allow the AUTO immune system the chance to RESPOND to threats naturally contracted… and develop sufficient ANTIBODIES for DNA (re)coding and IMMUNITY to the challenges every species faces to SURVIVE and THRIVE, in the long run… vs. making a few FAR to materially wealthy and powerful control freaks, even more so…

          • william scott

            I think his iconography, is appropriate? Thousands of articles to the contrary, dozens of good books and studies, and potential “common sense reasoning,” but… he’s never even seen the measles chart, apparently?? (i.e. Measles was 98.6% dead by 1963 when the vaccination was released and is now very rare, unless inoculated with it!?)

          • Robert Quickert

            Example 1: “Yet vaccines are injurious, as the article has the grace to admit.” Trivial, this is not in question; the question is to what degree versus the benefits. Those benefits far outweigh the risks. You disingenuously neglect to say so as the next line.

            Example 2: “Vaccine courts in the US and now Italy have awarded damages to families whose children have been severely injured by vaccines – and some of these damages seem to have been awarded as regards autism itself.” No vaccine court in the US has awarded damages for autism. Period. Please provide a link directly to the vaccine court official record which says it has. One cannot.

        • silversmith

          Meme

    • silversmith

      In reality measles like whooping cough,chicken pox, mumps etc declined because a critical. mass of exposure was reached. We all had them or were exposed . Nature ran its course. Get ready for your Ebola shot .

  • Vickey Maisano

    My understanding, from a pediatrician friend of mine, is that issues are NOT related to the live virus in the vaccine (and yes, it is dangerous to some in terms of long term health risks, however small percentage) BUT RELATED to the preservatives in the vaccine that causes all the problems, especially with autism. She pretty much acts like the entire medical community knows this, however they “collectively” feel it is better to get the vaccines. She also said the preservatives are NOT what was used when my age group (born in the 1950’s) got vaccines. My guess (totally unsubstantiated) is that whatever preservative is being used is probably the more profitable choice for big pharma…..It always comes down to the Benjamin’s.

    • william scott

      They used a mercury based adjuvant called Thimerosal, which was mega dosed to infants (25,000 PPM per injection, which is well over 1000x the toxic adult dose) causing an estimated 1/56 kids to become autistic, vs. 1/25,000 30+ years ago… 13,000 US court cases with 3500 settlements to date, mainly for autism / auto immune diseases… It’s estimated that 1/10 children will be autistic by 2020 if this isn’t STOPPED??? The same adjuvant is also used now in FLU, etc. shots, BTW!

      “An adjuvant is a substance that is formulated as part of a vaccine to enhance its ability to induce protection against infection. Adjuvants assist in activating the immune system, allowing the antigens— pathogen components that elicit an immune reaction in vaccines, to stimulate a response that leads to long-term protection…”

  • Argyle Gargoyle

    I get a flu shot every year because I was tired of getting the flu every winter, usually right around Christmas.Now I never get the flu. Since I was in the Army and have been to some bad places, I have had almost every shot including anthrax. No side effects. My kids have had all their shots and are healthy, happy, and at the top of their classes, even in gifted programs.

    Reactions to vaccines do happen but are rare, and the small risk is preferable to letting diseases run unchecked. You really want POLIO to come back?

    • Thanks for responding. But you are generalizing from your own particular experience.

      • william scott

        You’re being too KIND. (Just wait til all that THIMEROSAL causes demensia, Alzheimers, MS, etc.) I wish I could point that out to my RN girlfriend, who used to do “flu shots” and has to take one yearly herself, in order to stay gainfully EMPLOYED…

    • elfmom55

      US gov openly admit vaccines can cause Polio, siezures and death in “Vaccine Injury Table”
      http://www.naturalnews.com/048861_Vaccine_Injury_Table_adverse_events_US_government.html

    • Centurian

      Well, I’ve never had a flu shot and have only had the flu twice in 17 years. Both times, a minor annoyance. And, I was in daily contact with lots of sick people over the years.

      Yet, a friend of mine took the flu shot 16 years ago, caught the flu anyway, developed Guillian-Barre, was paralyzed for years, still can’t feel his feet and his compromised immune system led to a rare form of leukemia and multiple skin cancers. All of this is as anecdotal as your example, but goes to show that different people get different results.

      What we don’t know, because it cannot be seen, is whether you would have caught the flu without the vaccines. The odds are pretty good that you would not have had it.

      This years flu shot has been shown to be between 92% and 97% ineffective. Yet deaths from the vaccine are greater than deaths from influenza in a number of recent years. Medical advances since 1918 make it extremely unlikely that you will die of the flu, dysentery, fever or nearly any other disorder. More people are killed by mistakes made by doctors (iatrogenic complications- about 200,000 in the US annually) than by all of the diseases for which we are told we must innoculate people each year. Maybe we need a vaccine to get rid of doctors!

      Nearly all of the people that I have been around for the last dozen years that take the flu shot, have developed the flu more often than those who do not. I’m not against vaccines. I’m a healthcare professional. I’m against blindly accepting expert advice that is not supported by real science. The flu vaccine is concocted annually based on a series of guesses, more than a year in advance, of what virus mutation will be prevalent the following year. Unfortunately the viruses either fail to cooperate with the prediction or never get the report.

      Its kind of like your airline pilot guessing that since he left New York on Runway 06 and used certain radio frequencies, that when he lands in San Francisco, he will use the same frequencies and land on the nonexistent runway 06. That ignores reality and the fact that weather and other conditions may be different 2,500 miles apart. Looking at last year’s mutations, does not predict those that will appear next year.

      The only way to accurately predict what strain of influenza will be prevalent next year is to grow it and release it on the public. Nevertheless, any one strain is only one of several that may exist in the environment in any year. You get vaccinated for H1N1 and might instead be exposed to H2N3. That’s of no use to you. You took the risk of a medical intervention with no benefit at all. Every intervention has risks.

      The point is that you should be free to make your own, informed evaluation of the risks and decide your own course of action. You choose the vaccination, I think that is your right. I choose to not take it and that is also my natural right.

      • william scott

        “The only way to accurately predict what strain of influenza will be prevalent next year is to grow it and release it on the public…” And that’s probably what they DO… or HOW ELSE would they remain PROFITABLE? Sell one vaccine for FLU that causes something else… even if it’s a “compromised immune system…” like say chemtrails facilitate. (i.e. They get you, either way!)

    • Pilgrim

      I too, was sick of getting the flu every single year right around Christmas time. This year I took a vitamin C every day, all winter long, and am still taking one every day. This year I didn’t even get a cold.

  • FedUP15232

    One of the articles I read recently pointed out that no one had died from measles in the last 15 years, but that 108 people had been killed by the vaccine. Why run the risk? When I was growing up, all us kids got measles, chicken pox, etc. We were sick for a few days, recovered, and our immune systems were stronger for the experience. That model seemed to work pretty well. I also am afraid of the preservatives in vaccines. We know that those things are toxic. And who knows what else might get slipped in to a vaccine that’s expected to be widely distributed? I wonder why the manufacturers have fought so hard to get legislation relieving them of liability for any damages? That certainly doesn’t inspire confidence, does it?

  • jgelt

    One of the best things DB has done for me is to get me to question the things I know to be a fact. If a topic causes me to become emotional, that sets off red flags. It is a sign that something that is a belief is under attack. Belief isn’t fact. When DB or anyone riles my emotions, I research. Is what I know still current information? What about it do I truly understand vs. opinions of experts that I accept? Who are these experts and what are their motivations? Who are my sources? Even when DB rattles my cage and I discover I am still right, I’m happy that I challenged my beliefs with facts. Thanks DB.

  • Joe

    Lew Rockwell posted a link to this article on CNBC http://www.cnbc.com/id/102473744tp://

    The
    “settled science”, as dangerous fanatics of the socialist religions are
    so fond of saying, is that live vaccines are dangerous to the
    recipients and to those who encounter the recently vaccinated. The call
    to quarantine the recently vaccinated is thus objectively in the public
    interest, Arguments against that policy can only be based on (1) a
    cost-benefit component of a business model or (2) ignorant denial of
    accepted medical knowledge and practice.

  • Kevin

    I was having a very ‘hot’ discussion with a
    student about vaccination. She was observing that it is becoming more and more
    regulatory – in that parents are being forced into vaccination in order to…
    Put their children into day care – To enroll in educational facilities – To qualify for government
    assistance – To be in contact or in close proximity to others…
    During the conversation the student asked…

    Q: “If one chooses to vaccinate – themselves or their children – does this not provide
    for ‘Immunity’ against disease?”
    A: According to the theory as proposed by Pasteur and Jenner – yes
    Q: Then why should the vaccinated person – who is theoretically ‘Immune’ to
    disease – worry about being in contact with another who is not vaccinated –
    shouldn’t it be the other way around – the non vaccinated person being at and
    taking their own risk?
    A: Again theoretically yes – however, there are many holes in the
    vaccination theory and the AMA et al have obfuscated the entire theory of
    immunization and vaccination to the point that very few think clearly about
    this thesis – it is very emotional.

    • william scott

      An interesting argument (that the vaccinated should in theory, no longer worry about those who were not) especially when you consider what Joe pointed out in the comment below yours! (i.e. That those who are vaccinated, should in turn be QUARANTINED as potential carriers, for a reasonable amount of time) as the recent Ebola epidemic (which could have easily become a PANDEMIC… if most Africans had not been wise enough after the TB, HIV, etc. “cures…” to AVOID the inoculations.) clearly illustrates. If only this were as (comparatively) simple as this dialog confines itself to… vs. the AGENDA of “depopulation,” which is ultimately what this game is all about, in the broader sense. Overall… vaccines are a disease spreading, Trojan horse. While they might save a majority in a severe outbreak of the deadliest kind… they cause more disease than they potentially cure, under lesser circumstances!

    • Robert Quickert

      Kevin, each of these “questions” you mention above has been rebutted countless times. To repeat them again is disingenuous. They are not holes in the vaccine arguments. And the argument is not at all emotional: it is rational.

  • Kevin

    The underlying thesis re: Vaccination is the ‘Germ Theory’ – as proposed by Louis Pasteur. Jenner hopped onto the bandwagon and brought in Vaccinations. The medical profession – mired in superstition and black magic jumped on board and from that day forth – through a well articulated fear campaign – has profited from the sale of pharmaceuticals.
    The germ theory states that germs attack and that we need a defence system to protect us.
    Biology says that germs find an environment that is conducive to growth, i.e. rotting material, darkness, humidity, moisture and that it goes about its business – devouring said toxic wastes. If said waste matter is cleaned up – the germs disappear.
    One theory is logical – the other is fantasy and PR
    Your choice!

  • Many years ago, I had a flu shot because, my employer required it… I promptly came down with the flu and was out for a week. Three years ago, my wife talked me into getting a flu shot… I promptly came down with the flu and was down for a week. I’ve concluded, at least for me, flu shots are counter productive. To each his own.

  • alaska3636

    Calling something “science” does not make it science. Science is arrived at through the scientific method. If someone tells you that your point is not valid because you just don’t like science, presumably they are unaware of the distinction between empirical verifiability and Popperian falsifiability. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Truth is painstakingly arrived at, cutting through the inherent limits of the senses, and tested over and again to see that an effect is correctly attributed to its cause. Any other view of science as “settled” or decided by a “consensus” is not science, but the “science” which I just do not like.

    This view obviously leaves a lot of room in terms of the interpretation of natural phenomena. It is the opinion of this author that given the wildly different beliefs and relative perspectives prevalent among humans that it should be left to the individual to decide when and where it is appropriate to predilections of a hypothesis where one is not causing direct and immediate harm by having a particular belief.

    This is the important critical argument behind such popular public scientific debates as vaccines which by all accounts can not be proven apodictically, however which can be used to deny the fundamental right to not be coerced against by means of forced vaccination. Climate change is another one which by all accounts has produced some incredibly inaccurate predictions on one account and incredibly invasive prescriptions on another.

    The connection between the scientific method and the arbitrary construction of coercive social institutions is specious at best for the liberty of your average man on the street and has wide implications for the scope and power of those people who stand to benefit from their own connection to coercive social institutions at worst. Which leads one to wonder: what does “science” have to do with freedom?

    Here’s a good article about a fellow who questioned the priesthood:
    http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/my-life-as-a-climate-lukewarmer.aspx

  • william scott

    I thought you were going to “conclude” with what I see as the “main issue.” If we don’t STOP these perps from MANDATING (by forced “consent”) vaccinations… the “epidemic” will be real enough… as the disease is in the supposed CURE! (As they’ve clearly done already, elsewhere…) The measles vaccine hit the market in 1963… well AFTER the peak (1918?) and at a point in time when the reported number of new cases had dropped by 98.6%. The same holds true for most other diseases they claim were virtually eradicated due to the introduction of vaccines, which is NONSENSE! (Especially today, as these diseases are INCREASING, wherever they “immunize.”) Several drug companies have been caught (and they do this routinely) releasing immunizations that CAUSE and / or increase the outbreaks in HIV to EBOLA…

    Furthermore, these Thiomerosal (mercury) based “preservatives” are not only a primary CAUSE of autism… but many other autoimmune, etc. diseases, which is now fairly well documented (outside of the USA, as par) and this issue isn’t just about why measles or flu vaccines should to be avoided (especially with infants and young children) but about one’s own right to NOT BE injected with POISONS and / or their kids being smart bombed with massive overdoses of TOXINS against their better judgement. Yet another reason I chosen NOT to father any kids, in the USA… I would have been at an MD or academics throat, let alone some “government official” telling me I “have to take” the latest (thimerosal laden) flu vaccine, or Ebola inoculation. So I guess that makes me a “realist” (vs. pacifist) “Constitutionalist – Libertarian – Anarchist?!” See THIMEROSAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

    Two related, eye openers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EdM4KRSkDA&list=FLu17C8pGu_UgARiYQwihjvg&index=2 about health freedom and vaccines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36_qz2beMaE&index=1&list=FLu17C8pGu_UgARiYQwihjvg

  • Bruce C

    One of the problems with vaccinations is that they exist within a limited framework of understanding. Biological contagions serve a useful, natural role despite current understandings and interpretations, thus the “limited framework” assertion. Vaccinations are having the same affects as antibiotics. They work initially but are beginning to become ineffective, except for all of their negative “side effects.”

    What is not yet understood is that by blocking certain biological pathways of psychic feedback the inner self is forced to create alternative ways to manifest the same information to the physically focused ego-consciousness self. But it’s also not as simple as that, because individual personalities choose various pathways of life, including short life spans, but also ones in which biological integrity is maintained despite “contagions.”

    For most people, however, that is all abstract nonsensical NON-INFORMATION, and so they may willingly seek out anything that might delay their death (importantly- not to extend their life). Therefore, vaccinations, et al, are a welcome distraction.

    The bottom line is that individuals/parents should be free to elect vaccinations or not, ideally with the understanding that each individual forms his/her own reality which includes the “diseases” one CHOOSES to contract. There are no victims or accidents.

  • nck

    Do we find lobby groups promoting the use of fresh fruit and vegetables to combat scurvy? No. By being made aware of the association, and seeing the truth in it, the practice of eating fresh fruit becomes second nature. Lobby groups become necessary when the facts on the ground do not confirm the mantra, or worse still, openly contradicts it. And the exercise is funded by those who will benefit from the practice. It is because people are beginning to realise that the vaccines do not work, and in many cases, the effect is worse than the disease itself, that they are turning away from it. When PR fails, the resort of the bully is to turn to force, and they use their dollars to buy the laws that force us to take the vaccines. Are there laws forcing us to eat fresh fruit? Would it make any sense to do so? Why, then, should it make sense to mandate the use of vaccines? This raises the issue of whether the state has any authority to infringe on the individual in the domain of his private life, and there is nothing more intrusive than forcefully injecting foreign substances into people against their will. There is no such thing as “free riding” in this context. Given that there are more vaccinated people than unvaccinated, it is clear who is responsible for the outbreaks. Don’t the unvaccinated have a claim against those who are vaccinated, and who develop the illness because of the vaccine and then pass it on to those not vaccinated?

    • william scott

      “Given that there are more vaccinated people than not, it’s clear who is responsible for the outbreaks. Don’t the unvaccinated have a claim against those who are vaccinated, and who develop the illness because of the vaccine and then pass it on to those not vaccinated?”

      That would make for an interesting “Class Action” lawsuit, to set a new “London BAR precedent…” say in Europe, first? I pointed out the same issue below (i.e. those contracting the disease/s are generally those vaccinated for it / other diseases, of late) and I think this is a very good POINT… so all one need do is a study, then get it PUBLISHED… to PROVE IT!? (And there lies the main problem, aside from getting a leading facility and / or medical, etc. journal in the Western+ world to point out what should now be, OBVIOUS???)

    • Robert Quickert

      Easily rebutted: scurvy is not contagious.

      • nck

        The fact that scurvy is NOT contagious, means people will tend to be less concerned about it, should be less bothered about taking steps to combat it and make it more likely for active steps to be taken to get them to address it. But none of this has proved to be necessary. Here we have a condition that IS contagious, could have serious consequences, and yet people want to have nothing to do with the vaccines. That has to say a great deal about their experience, either direct or though contact with others and their decision to want to have nothing to do with it. Resorting to laws to force usage is a sign both of the failure of the vaccine and the determination of those who wish to profit from it to persevere against the odds. It makes the situation worse. It does not show a desire to act in the best interests of the people, just the opposite.

        • Robert Quickert

          A very small percentage of people refuse to have anything to do with vaccines, or modify their vaccine behaviour to their detriment or the detriment of their children. This says that they are emotional and irrational in the face of the overwhelming scientific evidence, which is only human. For their own safety, the safety of their children, and the safety of the rest of society, if goodwill efforts are not enough, then we must take stronger efforts. Removing religious and personal choice exemptions is a step in that direction.

          • nck

            “to their detriment or the detriment of their children” – this is opinion and each is entitled to his own.

            “This says that they are emotional and irrational in the face of the overwhelming scientific evidence” – scientific evidence is no conclusive in this regard, and may well favor not using the measles vaccines.

            “For their own safety, the safety of their children”, – no ones business but their own.

            “the safety of the rest of society” – If vaccines work, no one is affected other than the person not vaccinated

            “we must take stronger efforts” – not our business but theirs.

            “Removing religious and personal choice exemptions” – not our business, and non one wants to go there, it is only one step away from imposing a religious dogma because those who make the rules says so, and the media says so, and the journals says so.

            The response given says volumes, mostly in its total disregard for the rights of individuals, and the failure to recognise the fact that the health industry has been hijacked in almost every level (from who is financed to do research so as to create a bias, the proven fraud in research at many kevels, who gets published, what is published, what criteria is used in reviewing or auditing research, to the power of mass media to promotea biased position etc). Instead of getting into specifics, suffice it to say that we have to learn to stop meddling in other people’s lives. We may disagree with what they do but may not over ride their freedom to act in their own best interest in the way they see fit. This rule, if applied, will allow everyone to live in peace. If not, our lives are at the mercy of the current idiot who is making and enforcing rules for the benefit of those who pay him to do so for their benefit. In this instance, just because we may agree with the rule being enforced, does not make enforcing it right. But this is only appreciated when the shoe is on the other foot, by then it is usually too late for us.

    • Robert Quickert

      And the unvaccinated vs vaccinated math in an outbreak has been debunked countless times as well. Here just one example of that debunking in Wired magazine.

  • Diane H

    Quoted:

    “I’m not a conspiracy theorist and I have actual medical background working in clinical and pathology labs. For those that just want to listen to the propaganda regardless which side you’re on, don’t read this cause it won’t do you any good. This is a small history lesson.
    1.Polio only caused poliomyelitis(paralysis) in 5% of people infected. The old polio vaccine was not safe. It was contaminated with SV40. A virus now linked to cancer. The polio epidemic coincided with the popularity of unnecessary tonsillectomy. Why is that important? Your tonsils are the only part of you capable of producing antibodies to polio virus. Tonsillectomy popularity fell and so did the occurrence of polio(http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~sbieniek/5540611204_ftp.pdf). Oh, and its spread fecal-oral, so, if you wash your hands, eat clean food and not have polio infected people shit where you eat, its not a threat. Oh, did i mention that weird mutations of the virus occurred because of the vaccine? (see VDPV) Why is none of this talked about?
    2. Measles, mumps, rubella, varicella(chickenpox)…most of the diseases that we vaccinate against, pale in seriousness compared to smallpox. There is no comparison. Measles will not destroy all human life. Its like comparing a fly to a cobra. Less than 1% of children who get measles, mumps, or rubella will have complications and once infected have almost complete immunity(unless their immune system fails at some point in life, see HIV).
    3. Toxins. Even if the thimerosal(mercury) has been removed from “most” vaccines, it remains in the yearly influenza vaccines. Mercury isn’t easily removed from the body. It concentrates in fatty regions of the body, mostly in the brain. You can do all the blood tests you want and it will not show high mercury levels unless the exposure has been recent. So, annual vaccinations can cause accumulative mercury to be deposited and cause damage. Mercury isn’t safe in any amount. Period.
    Alluminum is a neurotoxin thats a adjuvant added to vaccines to boost immune response to the contents of the vaccine.
    Biological matter from eggs, monkey, human, pig, cow etc, is used as a medium to grow these virus. Most of that stuff is left in and can cause allergic reactions, especially in young children whose immune systems are not well develop(all babies).
    Preservatives including MSG are included.
    Just google vaccine ingredients. The top will be from the cdc and will be vague, the second hit will be vaxtruths website, which goes into detail about how much of certain ingredients is in vaccines and fda guidelines on the amounts that are toxic compared to whats in vaccines.
    4. Studies show that unvaccinated children are healthier and less likely to die of SIDS.
    Vaccinated children have a much higher occurrence asthma, allergies, ear infections, ADHD, immune problems, etc.
    5. The side effects of vaccines often mimic the disease itself. The insert for the mmr vaccine plainly states there is a chance to develop fever, “measles like rash”, nausea etc. So, whats the point?

    Do vaccines prevent some illness? Probably. Do they save lives? Some but not as many as you would think.
    In my clinical experience, I can tell you they arent that effective. Almost every child I’ve seen with any of these childhood diseases had been vaccinated. A lot came close to being misdiagnosed because of their vaccination records. I seen a young man die from encephalitis at 19 because he had untreated chickenpox which his parents thought was hives because he had received the varicella vaccine….OOPS! If he had caught it as a child he would have probably been complication free.
    We as humans think we can outsmart nature, our bodies. We cant.

    the CDC recommends 49 doses of 14 vaccines in the first 6 years of life. If I’m not mistaken, 24 are recommended in the first 18 months. Thats way too much pressure on a young persons immune system. It would be like constantly being infected by multiple virus for birth til a year and a half old.

    Look at the kids around you. Ask a long time teacher if they seen the type of crazy behavior and neurological disorders we have today say, 30 years ago.

    This is a choice that parents should be allowed to make. If your child is vaccinated, then have faith in that vaccine and stop harassing people about it. Its not the job of other parents to protect YOUR child. Kids are gonna get sick.Some are gonna die no matter what you do.”

    • Thanks.

    • Kevin

      Close Diane – let go of the medical philosophy – germs.virus – and recognise the natural healing cycle – initiated by fever.heat.catalyst and be free from having to defend or explain all secondary effects.resuls.
      The UNITY of all disease = Toxaemia and therefore only one cure – Rest and allow the body to heal itself.
      thank you for your postings – they are closer to the truth than most.

    • Elizabeth Martin

      To answer your question “Why is none of this talked about?” the answer is simple: FOLLOW THE MONEY. The pharmaceutical manufacturers have 100% IMMUNITY from prosecution or responsibility for any and all harm and death resulting from their products. Ditto all hospitals, clinics, drugstores, doctors, nurses and other jab-givers. The industry is huge, protected/subsidized by government, and makes more PROFIT every year. Why would they want to give up this cash-cow to actually allow people to know the facts and the truth? But there ARE excellent sources online, as mentioned above – ExperimentalVaccines.net, NaturalNews.com, and others. to educate yourselves – if not for yourself, for the children. You will be glad you did. Good points, Diane…………Cheers!

    • Robert Quickert

      “Some are gonna die no matter what you do.” This is the most repulsive part of the quotation Diane has cited. I think it is worth saving lives, what’s more saving suffering and life-long after effects of disease. Vaccines do precisely that.

      As to the other arguments made in the quotation cited, each has been rebutted so often as to make their continued use a tragic satire. Vaccines work far in excess of any risk they pose.

      • Simply making assertions does not prove your point. The issue is complicated.

        —–

        The Vaccine Hoax is Over. Documents from UK reveal 30 Years of Coverup

        Andrew Baker ( FFN),- Freedom of Information Act in the UK filed by a doctor there has revealed 30 years of secret official documents showing that government experts have

        1. Known the vaccines don’t work
        2. Known they cause the diseases they are supposed to prevent
        3. Known they are a hazard to children
        4. Colluded to lie to the public
        5. Worked to prevent safety studies

        Those are the same vaccines that are mandated to children in the US.

        800px-Smallpox_vaccineEducated parents can either get their children out of harm’s way or continue living inside one of the largest most evil lies in history, that vaccines – full of heavy metals, viral diseases, mycoplasma, fecal material, DNA fragments from other species, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80 (a sterilizing agent) – are a miracle of modern medicine.

        Freedom of Information Act filed in the US with the CDC by a doctor with an autistic son, seeking information on what the CDC knows about the dangers of vaccines, had by law to be responded to in 20 days. Nearly 7 years later, the doctor went to court and the CDC argued it does not have to turn over documents. A judge ordered the CDC to turn over the documents on September 30th, 2011.

        On October 26, 2011, a Denver Post editorial expressed shock that the Obama administration, after promising to be especially transparent, was proposing changes to the Freedom of Information Act that would allow it to go beyond declaring some documents secret and to actually allow government agencies (such as the CDC) to declare some document “non-existent.”

        Simultaneous to this on-going massive CDC cover up involving its primary “health” not recommendation but MANDATE for American children, the CDC is in deep trouble over its decades of covering up the damaging effects of fluoride and affecting the lives of all Americans, especially children and the immune compromised. Lawsuits are being prepared. Children are ingesting 3-4 times more fluoride by body weight as adults and “[t]he sheer number of potentially harmed citizens — persons with dental fluorosis, kidney patients tipped into needing dialysis, diabetics, thyroid patients, etc — numbers in the millions.”

        The CDC is obviously acting against the health of the American people. But the threat to the lives of the American people posed by the CDC’s behavior does not stop there. It participated in designed pandemic laws that are on the books in every state in the US, which arrange for the government to use military to force unknown, untested vaccines, drugs, chemicals, and “medical” treatments on the entire country if it declares a pandemic emergency.

        The CDC’s credibility in declaring such a pandemic emergency is non-existent, again based on Freedom of Information Act. For in 2009, after the CDC had declared the H1N1 “pandemic,” the CDC refused to respond to Freedom of Information Act filed by CBS News and the CDC also attempted to block their investigation. What the CDC was hiding was its part in one of the largest medical scandals in history, putting out wildly exaggerated data on what it claimed were H1N1 cases, and by doing so, created the false impression of a “pandemic” in the US.

        etc.

        http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/10/the-vaccine-hoax-is-over-freedom-of-information-act-documents-from-uk-reveal-30-years-of-coverup/

      • Diane H

        Talk to the states that have killed the mandatory vaccine bills, so far: Oregon, Washington, and Maryland. Maybe you should present your info to them.
        You are so ignorant, I do not know where to start, so I won’t.
        End of discussion.

  • Kevin

    We have a system of taking ingredients into our bodies – it is called a ‘Digestive System’
    After passing through the digestive system – said ingredients are prepared (detoxified) and ready to be passed into the blood stream.
    The introduction of a known poison into the blood stream through inoculation / vaccination – by-passes the liver – enters directly into the blood stream and creates a most unfavourable response – from fever to death.
    Disease – all disease – is nothing more than a response from the organism to a condition that is not favourable for homeostasis.
    It is a favourable response and should not be suppressed by any means.
    The act of conservation of energy allows the body to rest and to go through its own healing cycle.
    Once this process is understood – the sooner we will be able to take care of our own health – with out reliance on fear based rhetoric which promotes false theory and practice.

  • Elizabeth Martin

    As an anti-vaccine researcher and CAM physician for decades, I am grateful for the many “anti-vaccer” sites online for people to truly, simply find the facts, proof, studies, etc. that they need to educate themselves to stay healthy and protect their beloved children. Experimental Vaccines.net, NaturalNews.com, are two excellent truth-telling sites to start with. There is also a site for the parents of vaccine-injured children to learn about the private court set up to winnow out and pay compensation for a small number of cases ($3 Billion and counting since it was set up in the 1980’s). Cheers!

  • Danny B

    Prior to about 1980 in this country, autism was relatively rare. The rapid climb in the rate of autism began when vaccine manufacturers switched from using animal cell lines to human fetal cell lines. A recent Italian court case has uncovered documents related to the combination childhood vaccine called Infanrix. The document contains data that was disclosed to regulatory authorities but, kept secret from the public, indicating that the vaccine made by GlaxoSmithCline caused sudden death in children. http://autismovaccini.org/2015/03/04/autismo-sentenza-di-rimini-riformata-in-appello-ma-i-giudici-sono-stati-tratti-in-errore/ not sure about the URL

    Also, ” The information insert accompanying FluLaval approved for use in people age 3 and older. The information insert accompanying Flulaval specifically States “there have been no controlled trials adequately demonstrating a decrease in influenza disease after vaccination with FluLaval”
    The is from a medical newsletter from Dr. David Williams.

    • Wow, thanks.

      • Rich A.

        I have heard that the reason for the difference is in the fact that the stronger blood/brain barrier in females is the reason why boys tend to higher rates of autism. If you think about it, it may actually prove that the vaccines are the cause of autism.

      • william scott

        I do believe you’ all are onto a “winning formula” here. Not only are the “comments” an intriguing follow- up to the editorials and interviews on the various “memes,” etc. The antagonists on this thread, for example… prompt the readers and staff to “look further” into the matrix… to uncover even more DAMNING information, as this editorial and the Ebola ones, for example… clearly illustrate. Perhaps soon “directed history” will also prove to ultimately be, an “oxymoron?” (i.e. One can wish?!) 😉

    • Gil G

      Then again dyslexia was rare to non-existent before it was termed so too was ADD.

      On the other hand, if vaccines cause autism then why do boys outnumber girls 4 to 1 in being autistic. If the naturopaths-types were right the autism rate should be the same among boys and girls.

      • Lyn Morris

        …according to Dr. Wakefield, the rate of autism is leveling out equally for girls and boys. But like anything else, once a statistic gets promoted…it tends to stick, way beyond the truth of the matter. The sad part is…..NO child should be dx’d with autism, since we know what is causing the gut reactions in children.

        • Gil G

          According to some guy who finds out from Jenny McCarthy that peddling fear through the entertainment media beats having to bother with science and professionalism.

    • william scott

      “Prior to about 1980 in this country, autism was relatively rare. The rapid climb in the rate of autism began when vaccine manufacturers
      switched from using animal cell lines, to human fetal cell lines.”

      SO… it was incremental because they had no prior authorization to do HUMAN stem, etc. cell research / products? (My recollection…) Or because they UPPED the toxins and anti / viral “soup” in the later (80s- 90s+) immunizations? Either way, it broke the “blood / brain barrier” by using human cells, obviously! This is precisely WHY humans should stick to what we’re good at vs. attempting to “play god.”

  • Danny B
  • william scott

    BOTTOM LINE: The RISKS outweigh any / all potential “benefit /s” unless the alternative is a PANDEMIC proven to cause serious debilitation, or DEATH… Mandating that anyone / everyone (or duping them into taking dangerous inoculations, with false advertising / fear propaganda, based on faulty science…) is not only WRONG… it’s utterly immoral and positively CRIMINAL. Unfortunately this is “business as usual,” for the pharma industry and allopathic medicine, at large. (Just look at the “cancer” industry, for example. Or the impact of repressing cannabis / cannabinoids for nearly a century from preventative medicine, treatments and pain relief, etc.) You have to ask yourself HOW / WHY did this happen? And the PTB wonder why their entire (systemic) “profit first” paradigm, is destined to IMPLODE?! I say… the sooner, the BETTER…

  • Back in the 90’s an Amish community had 300 people who contracted the measles. Guess how many died? Yes, that would be a big fat zero. When I was young, parents would intentionally expose their children to the measles, chicken pox and other such dreaded diseases. They were aware that though it would be a pain in the butt taking care of them for maybe a couple of weeks, it would run it’s course and be over. Most of these “diseases” were considered mild and mostly just a nuicance.

    We opted out of vaccinations for all three of our children. However, my oldest daughter decided to get many of them after she was grown and that is as it should be. (Her church’s insurance said she had to have them if she wanted to go to New Orleans to help in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.) I think she should not have gotten them and that she was misinformed but it was her choice.

    Forcing unwitting children who don’t have power over their own bodies to be injected with substances that have not been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be completely safe is just wrong. Even if they were proven to be completely safe it would still be wrong to force people to take them, of course. If anything parents should not be allowed to have their children injected with foreign substances just because so called “experts” say it okay. Why so many people put their trust in an establishment that has proven over and over to be unreliable is beyond me.

    It’s pretty obvious with the recent onslaught of fear mongering in the media regarding the measles that the power elite are feeling the heat of the internet reformation. As we all know a knowledgeable, informed public is the last thing they want.

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