News & Analysis
The US$200-Trillion Debt Which Cannot Be Named
The scary real U.S. government debt ... Boston University economist Laurence Kotlikoff says U.S. government debt is not $13.5-trillion (U.S.), which is 60 percent of current gross domestic product, as global investors and American taxpayers think, but rather 14-fold higher: $200-trillion – 840 per cent of current GDP. "Let's get real," Prof. Kotlikoff says. "The U.S. is bankrupt." Writing in the September issue of Finance and Development, a journal of the International Monetary Fund, Prof. Kotlikoff says the IMF itself has quietly confirmed that the U.S. is in terrible fiscal trouble – far worse than the Washington-based lender of last resort has previously acknowledged. "The U.S. fiscal gap is huge," the IMF asserted in a June report. "Closing the fiscal gap requires a permanent annual fiscal adjustment equal to about 14 percent of U.S. GDP." This sum is equal to all current U.S. federal taxes combined. The consequences of the IMF's fiscal fix, a doubling of federal taxes in perpetuity, would be appalling – and possibly worse than appalling. – Globe and Mail (Canada)
Dominant Social Theme: What? That can't be. Let's not talk about it.
Free-Market Analysis: These numbers cited by Laurence Kotlikoff have been all over the Internet for a while now but have not been much reported by the mainstream press. No surprise there, but we are a bit shocked that the Globe and Mail chose to pick them up. Was it a slow news day? The story itself has been around since August.
Because the Globe and Mail has covered it, so shall we. Here is our question: Given these numbers, how can banks and institutions purchase US fixed income securities, let alone the dollar? What sense does it make? These large institutions, with fiduciary responsibility, are basically buying a bankrupt product. And it is not just the US. The entire Western world (maybe with the exception of Germany) is pretty much either flat broke or worse than broke.
For us, this shows as much as anything else how controlled the system really is. It's just a fiction and has little resemblance to reality. Institutions are said to flee to the "safe-haven" of the US dollar when they are nervous. But as Kotlikoff shows, the safe-haven is nothing of the sort. When one adds up all of the various commitments that the US has made abroad and at home (to its own citizens) the debt begins to add up to the monstrous, impossible number Kotlikoff arrives at.
So we ask: Can't bond buyers at large institutions add? How are they comfortable buying the bonds of a bankrupt entity? And why has it taken until 2010 for a mainstream economics professor to measure the "real debt" of the US and speak out about it? Heck we've known this for years now – and so have you! If the Western monetary system were a person, it would long ago have been declared clinically insane and shipped off to an asylum. What is worse is the conspiracy of silence about the "real" US debt, which we have to assume parallels at least partially the debt of other Western nations. The whole of the West is busted, pretty much – and the "austerity" plans being put in place are just more window-dressing, albeit of a very nasty sort.
Of course there are several ways out of this dilemma. Probably the easiest one is inflation verging on hyperinflation. If the US prints enough dollars-from-nothing (as Bernanke seems intent on doing) perhaps the dollar will lose so much value that the growing debt will be partially erased. Of course this basically debases the goods and services that people currently count on. The services will remain as a kind of legal fiction – funded but not worth anything.
Another more controversial way to get rid of the "real" debt would simply be for the US to devalue or to announce that it was not going to honor current accumulated debts. Of course this would do nothing to reduce further debt burdens (though it would certainly anger debt-holders) – and this is why Professor Kotlikoff predicts that many of the promises made by the US to its citizens will not be met. The article excerpted above informs of us following:
He opposes further stimulus spending because it will simply increase the debt. But he does suggest reforms that would help – most of which would require a significant withering away of the state. He proposes that the government give every person an annual voucher for health care, provided that the total cost not exceed 10 percent of GDP. (U.S. health care now consumes 16 percent of GDP.) He suggests the replacement of all current federal taxes with a single consumption tax of 18 per cent. He calls for government-sponsored personal retirement accounts, with the government making contributions only for the poor, the unemployed and people with disabilities.
The solutions offered by Kotlikoff would surely revamp the social contract that the US has with its citizens. But this is what is taking place in Europe as well. It turns out that the welfare state is a mathematical impossibility. Ludwig von Mises was correct. Those that practice socialism eventually bankrupt themselves.
Of course throughout most of the 20th century, von Mises (and the Austrians generally) were ignored by mainstream Western economics. Keynesian economics, monetarist economics, econometrics and even supply-side economics all got a broad hearing and received various levels of approbation from various social strata. But free-market economics was given short shrift. Except for the von Mises Institute, there were few supporters for its stiff dose of truth-telling. But look at where that has left the US and the West.
The 20th century as we have often noted was a true Dreamtime. People were convinced by the dominant social themes of the power elite that government was going to take care of them. As the century wound down the claims became more extravagant. Government workers especially won the right to stop working and collect pensions after only 20 or 25 years, and retirements became bigger and more gaudy as public sector unions pressed for more and more benefits.
But this was only part of it. In America, especially, people were led to believe that if they saved and "invested" in the stock market, they could do very well for themselves. They were led (promoted) to believe (as the Chinese believe today) that real estate was a good "investment" and that prices, while uneven, would always head upwards sooner or later. It seemed to make sense, after all, given that the demographics were fairly inexorable. Baby boomers would continue to bid up securities and commodities because there were so many of them. The Dow, one popular financial guru wrote, was surely going to 20,000 and even 40,000 in a fairly short period of time.
In the late 20th century, the power elite driven US financial/media complex was in its heyday. There were hundreds of magazines and dozens of TV programs all focused on explaining how to "invest" and where money should be placed for maximum advantage. The game was on. Millions of pages were printed explaining what mutual funds were "hot" and what companies were high flyers. NONE of this information, for the most part, ever mentioned real money – gold or silver – or predicted that gold would rise fourfold in the 2000s.
And now? Silence has begun to descend upon the hyperactive financial-media complex. Some of the most prominent business and investment magazines have either gone of out of business or been sold for a nominal dollar-and-debt. Baby boomers (and European pensioners) who until recently looked at their balance sheets and believed that their financial goals had been achieved are starting to realize that much of what they counted on is increasingly ephemeral.
Their housing valuations are impressive, but now banks will not necessarily lend against home equity and their domiciles are increasingly illiquid. Their stock portfolios were heavily damaged and somehow the current stock market rises have not helped replenish the equity. Their pensions – from large corporate employers or from the state itself – seemed solid, and yet Europe is finding out that those pensions can be rewritten and are not so certain after all.
What was the point of it all? Some people became teachers and put up with the increasingly ludicrous rules imposed by unions and the political correctness demanded by peers. Others became police officers and kept silent while their brethren-in-blue became increasingly cynical and violent. Still others worked for the state and turned a blind eye to the corruption and payoffs that went on all around them. People worked in non-profits and soon realized that much of the money that was supposed to go to needy clients never got there. People worked in finance and accounting and soon realized that most of their efforts involved increasingly useless record-keeping for an ever-expanding authoritarian state.
We could go on, and indeed we have mentioned all this before. Every part of Western regulatory democracy in the 20th century was a kind of Dreamtime. The elites spun magical fantasies that people, not knowing any better, inhaled ecstatically. People like to believe that life is certain and that social structures can guarantee wealth. But they cannot. Only human action can provide one with any certainty – and then only if one has accumulated gold and silver during one's lifetime.
Ironically, it has not, perhaps, turned out much better for Western elites. This tiny group of people puffed up by arrogance and secret internal narratives launched promotion after promotion during the 20th century. The idea was to frighten the middle class especially into giving up wealth and power to a specially created superstructure of global bodies that had been created as appropriate repositories.
But in the 21st century, even the Western elites have not fared so well. The Internet has stripped them of their anonymity and revealed their promotional machinations. The economic crisis, which they intended to use to create a one-world government, has become a problem as well, causing people to turn to the Internet to see what has gone wrong. The education that takes place every day is eroding the elite's hold on government, economics, military power and, most importantly, on the minds and psyches of the once easily-controlled masses.
Kotlikoff seems to believe that once people understand what has happened to them – once they wake up from Dreamtime – they will be amenable in some sense to a rational re-ordering of their deflating dreams. We think this is not necessarily an accurate perception. What he apparently expects is that people will patiently rebuild a system that has essentially served as a coffin for their hopes and goals. His idea is that a civil society will restructure its methodologies to deliver what is real and good and necessary.
But Western Dreamtime was never about delivering anything. It was about fooling the masses and the middle classes, draining them of wealth and power in order to create a One-World Order. The system, fully perverted early in the 20th century, was not set up to deliver anything; it was set up to extract something – most unfortunately the authenticity that people are capable of bringing to their lives and work. Once people realize just how badly they have been misled, we think a growing number will want to reject what we have called "regulatory democracy" outright. Thus, we think large-scale social cohesion will be harder to come by; and authoritarian solutions levied by a desperate power elite likely won't work either.
We have predicted – and continue to predict – a gradual entropy could overcome the rigid structures of modern nation-states, and larger political entities may begin to fracture into smaller ones. Gold and silver may come into circulation not via any economic or political mandate but simply because precious metals have historically been the money of choice absent government mandates against their circulation. People may pursue more entrepreneurial vocations; the family farm may return; the international corporation may fall on hard times.
Conclusion: All this depends on how badly Dreamtime is fractured by the coming realities and how angry people get about the wasting of their assets and opportunities. No, we don't know what is coming next, but if the Western elites cannot control society through its promotional schemes – due to an increasing lack of credibility – the ramifications are both significant and severe. People who have woken up (whether they wished to or not) will eventually begin to discover what it is to lead lives of significance and human action. Some may not enjoy it.
Posted by docellis124 on 03/18/13 06:00 PM
" Gold and silver may come into circulation not via any economic or political mandate but simply because precious metals have historically been the money of choice absent government mandates against their circulation"
Why would thieves stop mandating against precious metal circulation? Given current trends, I see gang shot-callers making possession of precious metals capital felonies.
Posted by Darryl on 03/18/13 04:16 PM
The Daily Bell hit the nail. At 73, I was always independent of government crapola. Too many had their hands out, and under Barrack "Robin Hood" Obama, it is the worse I have ever witnessed in my life. I hope I am "planted" before the house of cards collapse!!
Posted by Ted Lindbeck on 01/22/11 05:25 PM
In my perpetually humble opinion the financial/political disaster they have been working on for more than a century is shaping up handsomely, and they will allow some little thing to collapse all the currencies, and then allow a FEW hundred million little people to starve to death, and THEN, just in the NICK, they will trot out electronic money and electronic tracking, so that "nobody can buy or sell" (Rev.13:17) without clearance. It helps their friends and eliminates their enemies.
Posted by Timok on 11/14/10 07:05 AM
When I see the USA and what it achieved in the 1950's and 1960's with molten Thorium salt reactors and the Apollo mission, I am full of great respect for a generation of Americans who lived through the hardship of the Second World War. The gnereation of US citizens after this US war generation are a complete and utter dissaster, namely dissipated in drugs, flower power era, in trivia spoon fed them over the media. It is this later US generation which has racked up huge debts.
In contradistinction, in China, the modern Chinese workers work hard, save their money, are modest in their consumption of natural resources, and work for the common good of their country. In contradistinction, the average modern US citizen thinks of me, me , me !
The sooner we are rid of this hopeless USA, the better ... namely, a country whose government was complicit in planting nanothermite explosive in the WTO buildings on 911, arranging for aircraft to hit the WTO buildings (building 7 was not hit by any aircraft and is a classic demolition job with fall at the rate of gravity), blaming overseas parties and then going on astronomically expensive military enterpirses in the Middle East. This military intervention is costing the USA dearly at the expens of schools, hospitals, an ultimately its whole infrastructure. The FEMA camps with their millions of black coffin liners stand ready to receive US citizens when it all collapses in the USA.
The USA should take the cue from China, work hard, produce, save, keep a stable society enshrining good human values and not the filth and decadence spewed out over US media, trivia, trivia, trivia ...
Reply from The Daily Bell
We are not so sure about the Apollo mission ...
Posted by SR on 10/31/10 11:34 PM
Leonardo Pisano, now you're cookin! Thanks for the input. And thanks Daily Bell, as well, for the link. Off to read the Ellen Brown interview.
Posted by Leonardo Pisano on 10/31/10 10:40 AM
@DB – yes, I read it, thanks. But I didn't want to comment here as to keep the thread clean.
Posted by Leonardo Pisano on 10/31/10 09:12 AM
The key here is, whatever monetary solution is chosen, that it must be TRUSTED by the people. Some gold/silver backed monetary system is the obvious solution, but it needs to be embedded into a trustworthy guarantee system. Private banks can give out Notes that carry the equivalent of gold/silver. A paper or electronic "gold grain", i.e., 100% backed by the equivalent in gold. Silver, or other commodities " oil jumps to mind -, may do in a ratio to gold grains. To make it tradeable, the "grain" can have a fixed link to the actual gold weight (e.g., one grain = 5 mg (but, hey, we let the market decide)). As long as every money note, whoever it issues, is guaranteed in a common denominator (gold, etc) it should do. The market will decide which notes are acceptable (i.e., really backed by the real stuff). This system can exist along with any fiat system, so if people want to convert valuable gold grains into useless paper dollars they can get it.
A trustworthy system may also be Friendly Favors, as a local solution (the term I took from Ellen Brown's article "Time for a New Theory of Money" [30.10.2010] here:
Click to view link -- see also the discussion of this article by The DB on 31.10.2010).
Reply from The Daily Bell
See our commentary on Ellen Brown's article here, beneath the interview itself:
Click to view link
Posted by ObserverOnTheHill on 10/31/10 09:04 AM
to see how The Federal Reserve ( and other central banks )has enslaved us through debt watch the following video and you will have a better grasp on "money" than 99.9% of people :
Click to view link
Posted by SR on 10/30/10 04:42 PM
Leonardo Pisano said:
"When it starts, I think it is fast by default. BTW, I think first we get an economic collapse .... In stock market terms I expect the DJIA to fall to 2000-3000 at least. An individual bank failure is not a problem, but a SYSTEM failure, a total loss in confidence in banks and fiat money is what is beyond the comprehension of most people. However, lacking an alternative, most people will stick with it until it's too late."
"Lacking an alternative." And that is the crux of the problem, and the challenge for those of us in the liberty movement. We need to have an alternative in place, so when the collapse happens, there is an alternative to total chaos and then a desperate population that will submit to almost anything in order to eat.
What can we do to put that alternative in place (or at least the skeleton of it) so there will be a "freedom choice" to counter-balance the "totalitarian choice"?
What is coming is a time of chaos and emergency. That will be a window of opportunity for the statists to grab more power and drive us more toward "world governance" with an even more remote layer of elites lording it over us. We need to make it a window of opportunity for team liberty too.
How? Please offer some suggested steps or ideas.
Posted by Ralph on 10/30/10 02:35 PM
I just read in the newspaper this morning that the Girl Scouts of America, have put the manufacturing of Girl Scout uniforms out for bids with Chinese companies. This is the problem that causes unemployment. The Girl Scout spokesman said they were going to China to get cheaper prices for the parents of the girls. I hope that none of the Girl Scout parents work at the New Jersey factory that currently makes the uniforms.
Posted by SR on 10/30/10 01:14 PM
Forest, what else, besides reliance on federal elections (which obviously has not worked) would you suggest as a plan of action for Americans? What can we do as individuals, local communities, counties, and states, to counter the drive to a new world currency and the dependency you speak of?
Posted by Leonardo Pisano on 10/30/10 07:53 AM
@SR – Posted on 10/30/2010 3:00:31 AM
Thank you, SR, for taking the time to respond. The formulation "SWIFT collapse" is not accurate, in hindsight. I meant a collapse that happens SOONER than timed by the PE. Then the PE is not ready and they may not be benefiting from this collapse as they might do otherwise. When it starts, I think it is fast by default. BTW, I think first we get an economic collapse. The double-dip scenario isn't accurate, because the second plunge (which I expect to commence any moment now) will go much deeper than the first. In stock market terms I expect the DJIA to fall to 2000-3000 at least. An individual bank failure is not a problem, but a SYSTEM failure, a total loss in confidence in banks and fiat money is what is beyond the comprehension of most people. However, lacking an alternative, most people will stick with it until it's too late. It's equivalent to a frog in a glass of water. If you heat up the water slowly, the frog adapts. Amazingly, at no point during the process he concludes that the environment is not suitable and he needs to jump out. No, the frog adapts until he's dead!
Your remark re E-gold: I think a good idea, but it relies on the bank infrastructure still. Click to view link is a reliable insofar as I can see. I think a local currency can indeed work, but I fear central gov will step in to make this illegal as soon as its scale has grown too large.
Posted by Forrest Anderson on 10/30/10 06:16 AM
@ Lk Walker on 10/29/2010 2:38:14 PM
"All caused by the unfunded Bushist adventures. That's the long and short of it."
I don't wish to appear unkind, but such generalizations as the above statement make are beneath the standard quality of the discourse normally to be found here.
The culture of corruption began with Nixon when we went off the gold standard in 1971. Our money was turned into a fiat lie, with everyone taking part on both sides of the aisle in congress, for their own benefit, and the benefit of the banks and corporate cartels that exist to this day, worldwide. Those who ran the world in 1971 still do run it, and benefit from it.
Whether they will find themselves forced to manuever through the justice system and electoral system to gain complete control of our lives as well as our money is what means to be seen. Will the PE simply take over the US by force, or by guile through the courts?
Based on the recent two years of the Obama Administration, it will probably be a bit of both, with relative freedom depending on how enslaved you are to the Bankers and government trhought debt and subsistance payments. After a refunding of the USA according to a world currency based partly on gold and silver, we could end up with a lot of people just owned outright by the government regardless of what they call the relationship.
After all, if the government has to feed you, house you, and take care of you after the worldwide currency transitions are made, working for the government will take on a whole new meaning.
There is a little hope that the next congress will be joined by a republican President in 2012, and the slow, hard way back to societal equilibrium is made, but we have only this one chance on November 2nd to begin the quest for solvency, and freedom. If the US does not stand their ground in a quest for some truth, justice and the American Way, a turn back to honest dealing will be abandoned by an America too weak and self satisfied to face up to reality.
Posted by SR on 10/30/10 03:26 AM
Jimmyaloha said: "Add racism, bigotry, seniors citizens on Medicare with their "government stay-out-of-my-health-care signs, and the real threat of arms against those who disagree and you have the TEA PARTY. It is an uninformed and amazingly stupid movement funded by the Koch brothers (Oil and Gas) to the tune of 84 million bucks. Germany, the most stable economy in Europe has NOTHING like it."
Up until that paragraph much of what you said had merit, but that last paragraph, reading for all the world like an excerpt from a partisan leftist's screed from Newsweek, really does not accurately describe the Tea Party movement. While big money and old GOP hacks certainly are trying to capture it and steer it toward "just vote Republican," the movement itself was from the bottom up, not from the elite GOP top down. As you likely know, it was really started by Ron Paul supporters back in 2007 and carried forward from there, with new blood coming in with the 912 groups, and with just generally scared and newly awakened Americans realizing that something was terribly wrong. The bailouts of the banksters had far more to do with that broad awakening than anything regarding the race or even the political party of the current occupant of the White House. Certainly there are many "conservatives" who suddenly rediscovered the Constitution now that their party was no longer in power, but that is just human nature – the Democrats did the same thing during the Bush years, only to go back to sleep when their savior ascended the throne. That some conservatives were not consistent does not now make them wrong, sorta like how even if you are paranoid that doesn't mean "they" aren't out to get you. Nor does it make them "racists" or "bigots." It just makes them human. They can now see government tyranny once again, while Dems no longer can.
The leftists dearly want to believe that anyone who opposes them is either racists, stupid, or crazy. You seem to be laboring under the same desire.
I have been to Tea Party events all over this nation – as a speaker most of the time – and I have talked to thousands of participants and what I have seen are newly awakened Americans (most of them politically active for the first time in their lives) who are sincerely and genuinely afraid and concerned about the loss of liberty in our nation. Are they always consistent? No. But they are not stupid, and they are not "racists." They are scared, and rightfully so. You should be welcoming them into the liberty movement and helping to teach them, giving them a sounder base of philosophy and economics – show them WHY corporatism is not the same as Adam Smith style free trade – rather than condemning them as dumb, stupid, bigots.
Different people are at different places on the path to understanding and on the path to liberty. Many have just stepped onto that path. Meet them where they are and help them along rather than throwing stones at them. Like it or not, they are your neighbors and as things get increasingly nasty, you will be far better off if you engage them with good will and a desire to lead and teach rather than surliness.
Posted by SR on 10/30/10 03:00 AM
Leonardo Pisano said:
"My idea is that a SWIFT collapse will be detrimental to the PE's agenda; their timing then simply fails. But if this happens, wouldn't the cure not be worse than the disease? I would be interested to hear what feedbackers here think about that."
Hmmm, I'm not so sure a swift collapse is not part of their agenda. The faster it is, the less time people have to prepare " both mentally and physically (such as with food storage and saving silver). A longer, slower slide down gives people time to wake up and get ready, while a sudden collapse would catch them off guard and leave them destitute and desperate, more willing to accept martial law and oppressive regimes. As others have noted, that seems to be the plan: Collapse brings on chaos, and out of chaos rises the "phoenix" of the New World Order in the form of a world currency managed by a world Fed, and then the institution of world government (just as happened with the EU). That seems to be the "solution" the PE are concocting.
Just out of curiosity, why do you say a fast collapse would hurt their plans? I'm not being argumentative. I am no economist and would appreciate reading your reasoning.
Now for a twist on your idea that a fast collapse could work to the detriment of the PE, but addressing how to minimize the harm to the masses: what if the collapse was sped along by people consciously shifting to an alternate system of using silver and/or gold (even by means of E-gold and E-silver) along with consciously patronizing local food and energy providers, co-ops, farmers markets, etc. (like a modern day version of the embargo against British goods our forefathers used). If sufficient numbers of people began to opt out of the fiat currency, withholding their participation in every way possible, and instead built up a local and state level economy using real money, and directly supporting local providers, that would both speed the demise of the fiat system and at the same time make people increasingly immune " or at least resistant and resilient " to its demise. The more prepared the people and local economies and communities are, and thus the less they need the fiat system, the faster it collapses, but with a corresponding reduction in the harm from a fast collapse, and with a far less desperate population that now has a choice " an alternate path of freedom and real money to the false choice the PE would like to offer of either starvation or submission to an even larger version of the monster that caused the disaster in the first place. With stronger people and local economies, the PE have less pretext to pull off martial law and the imposition of a world-wide "Fed" during a crisis.
As I said, I am no economist, so those of you who are, please let me know if, and how, such could be done. Is it possible to put an alternative system in place fast enough to pull the rug out from under the elites? As the internet did in communications? If so, how?
For the Republic (and for Liberty),
Posted by Jimmyaloha on 10/29/10 11:15 PM
Sorry ... but I think you misunderstand the point of DB's article. The TEA PARTY has been more co-opted by the Elite Power Brokers than any other group.
The true libiratarian views of Ron Paul have turned into Health Care by corrupt corporations who maintain their model is better than Government Health Care (Not so: France #1 in the world US #38)
"Privatization" runs the wheels of the economy= Private Schools, Prisons, Health Care, Mercenary Soldiers (which outnumber actual US soldiers in the field) fighting wars, and if you had your way, Social Security too.
This Milton Friedman school of thought that prevails today having failed in Chile, Argentina and Uruguay under dictatorships for which it is intended is NOT Adam Smith Invisible Hand or his regulated free markets but Corporate Monopolies run by Oligarchs.
Add racism, bigotry, seniors citizens on Medicare with their "government stay-out-of-my-health-care signs, and the real threat of arms against those who disagree and you have the TEA PARTY. It is an uninformed and amazingly stupid movement funded by the Koch brothers (Oil and Gas) to the tune of 84 million bucks. Germany, the most stable economy in Europe has NOTHING like it.
Posted by RLS on 10/29/10 10:45 PM
Most economists agree and believe that we are positioned at a crossroad concerning our country's financial future, as there is no reasonable expectation that we can tax, grow, or borrow our way out of such a crushing, unfunded debt.
Hauser's Law states that federal tax receipts always fall short of 20% of GDP. That alone makes any suggestion these programs can be fiscally supported divorced from reality. The U.S. repudiated two centuries of fiscal prudence by the Founding Fathers when they entered into this Faustian model of debt, dependency, and default. It is Ponzi on steroids and the country is the victim!
Posted by John Blenkins on 10/29/10 08:25 PM
RE Nostradamus Fort Knox quatrain. I do think the American people will certainly want to know what has happened to their wealth,Ron Paul has been calling for an audit FED included for a long time.The tipping point will come when the coming
engineered calamities, dust cloud begins to settle.Middle class pensions,investments,jobs houses evaporate in front of there eyes.
Food prices if they rise 100% in the next 6 months(50%since June) at today's prices and the dollar dives even faster so it is say worth 50% less. What will a 1 dollar loaf of bread coast then?
The way i see it is we are in the final stages of Grand Theft America (We got the same in Europe just a bit behind) .So it is completely possible to see Nostradamus prophesy being fulfilled more so now than at any time in American history. Empty stomachs make a mighty army.
Posted by Judith Heavens on 10/29/10 05:04 PM
If you are not already aware of Walter Burian and his work finding the REAL uses of our tax dollars and the double books being kept at all levels of government(city,county,state,federal)please check him out at Click to view link (or .org) This info,is invaluable to all serious free marketers and NWO enlightenment for all.
Posted by Lk Walker on 10/29/10 02:38 PM
All caused by the unfunded Bushist adventures. That's the long and short of it.