Why the Government Fails at Welfare
By Garrett Kehr - June 19, 2017

The leviathan created by the modern welfare state is one of the gravest threats facing the American republican system. Dangers levied by the continued use of the government’s dole come both fiscally and socially. Fixes being floated from Congress to community organizations still lack a cohesive focus on reform in the mainstream public discourse.

The federal welfare apparatus has bloomed into a disastrous menagerie of nearly one hundred programs. Representative Warren Davidson (OH8-R) has introduced legislation that will consolidate 92 of the programs in an attempt to minimize waste and redundancy.  Davidson isn’t alone in his calls for welfare reform.  Other members of the House Freedom Caucus are publicly demanding that welfare reform be tied into the promised Trump tax reform package.

Even if House conservatives get their way, it’s not clear if the welfare model is sustainable. Stacked up against other industrialized countries, the U.S. clearly gets the worst bang for its buck.  In part, the reason for the failings comes from flawed designs for the American social safety net.

Governments on both sides of the Atlantic seem to be settled on the model of government intervention supporting those in need, but several Pacific Rim countries offer a different model based on social responsibility.

Pacific Rim Models

The tiny nation of Singapore has dazzled economists and pundits since it gained its independence from Great Britain. By embracing free market principles Singapore has raised its per capita income from $500 to over $52,000 in the short time it has been free of colonial shackles.

Even more exciting is the attitude the government takes on social welfare programming.  Since its inception, the state has taken a hard stance on handouts.  The government’s longtime approach has been underpinned by the idea that universal benefits are “wasteful and inequitable” and has chosen to base their safety net on social pressures. Singapore’s philosophy on welfare follows

Singapore’s philosophy on welfare follows three basic principles: each generation should pay its own way, each family should pay its own way, and each individual should pay his or her own way.   These aren’t just guidelines.  The legislators codified the importance of family reliance by enabling seniors to file litigation against their children if they refuse to support them.

In addition to heavy social pressures, the state also requires compulsory savings for retirement, housing, and other items deemed social necessities.  By requiring employers and employees to designate money for individual “rainy day funds” the government ensures that citizens have money when in need while simultaneously avoiding onerous taxes and bureaucracy that accompany the American and European models.  

Other Pacific Rim countries have also dabbled in alternative forms of social welfare.  Chile once instituted a meritocratic point based system which enabled those in lower income brackets to advance through subsidies offered by the state and was able to produce better results than those in Europe and America.

Japan also has a history of creating social pressures to ensure the elderly and those in need are taken care of without government intervention.  Hong Kong, another of the Pacific’s shining societies has its own take on welfare in which increased productivity from workers equals increased benefits.

While those in Congress struggle to find the solution to America’s welfare woes it is important that they look not across the Atlantic to the failing welfare states of Europe for policy, but rather to the east and take note of the alternatives offered by market-based models.

States Rights

Instead of waiting on the national government to create a solution to one of America’s most pressing problems several states have taken the initiative and attempted to create a sustainable welfare model. By embracing the federalist model and utilizing the states as laboratories of democracy lawmakers can see what works and what doesn’t in real time. Already some states have produced promising results.

Legislators in Maine took a bold step in implementing conservative style welfare reform. Initiated by a Republican governor, Paul LePage, the reforms sought to address the growing number of welfare recipients in the state and the massive budgetary mess that came along with it. In Maine, able-bodied adults are required to work, train, or volunteer at least on a part-time basis to receive any government benefits.

The plan drew steep criticism from both the Obama administration and liberal media outlets as both claimed that the measure unfairly targeted the poor in a budget reducing measure and would create more harm to those in need. The results of Maine’s experiment, however, have proven quite the opposite. 

Maine has lowered its unemployment rate and has 10 times fewer residents on welfare. Even more exciting for Mainers, those who came off of welfare saw their incomes rise by an average of 114 percent. Proving that Maine’s results are not just a fluke, Kansas has implemented a similar program and has likewise alleviated a great deal of the state’s poverty.

Policy think tanks across the country have analyzed the finding of Maine’s experiment and have called on their state governments to follow suit. Some even heralded the program as a model for the nation. The problem facing many action oriented states come from restrictions put in place by the federal system. While the Republican lead welfare reform of the 90s did a great deal to push welfare to the state level, it also left a great deal to be desired.

To function as independent bodies, as the federal system intends, and better serve their most vulnerable citizens’ states ought to have greater freedom to experiment with welfare reforms.  Congress could act to give states a greater say in how welfare is implemented within their borders if reform is to be both helpful to those in need and sustainable.


The government has a long history of implementing duplicative, ineffective policies and leaving communities to pick up the pieces. From the feds creating the modern ObamaCare healthcare debacle to city government literally stealing donations meant for children, every time the state attempts to intervene to solve a societal ailment it just makes it worse. Welfare is no different. Luckily for Americans, the government doesn’t control their fate, they do.

When looking to alleviate the suffering of their fellow citizens, Americans need only look inwards. American citizens are already the most charitable citizenry in the world, and keep giving more money every year. Moreover, private charity organizations, by and large, run much more efficiently and with substantially lower overhead.

Private groups are providing money, resources, and life-changing services better than the government is. Tired of seeing their impoverished neighbors get tossed around by the welfare system one group started an organization to successfully transition people off government support and into self-sufficiency. The core idea of such missions is to have neighbors helping their community members rise to their full potential and become productive by their own means. Of course, neighbors helping neighbors only works if there are opportunities available to them.

No government intervention or individual generosity can finally end poverty. The only force powerful enough to lift people out of the clutches of poverty is free market capitalism. Many who advocate for expanding the welfare state in its traditional form fail to realize the positive power markets can play in reducing poverty.

The wealthiest societies are not those which provide their citizens with cradle to grave care; it’s actually the complete opposite! The freer the society the easier it is for individuals to act and create wealth which in turn raises the standard of living. If allowed to thrive, market forces will create the greatest outcome to workers, companies, and those in need.

If the government is serious about helping the disadvantaged it should stop with the various welfare schemes, which inevitably fail, and get out of the way of the real engines of wealth creation. Neither the federal government nor any local authorities have the means to truly address poverty. Government fails; freedom works.

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  • R


    • guestimate

      QE for the banksters & Wall St. worked real well …for them.

  • Kernel01

    The only real cure for poverty is to get a job.

    • Wade House

      * You do know that some jobs have a thousand applicants?
      * You do know that elements of this government seek out the lowest income people in the world and then send businesses there to save money?
      * You do know that most of our mfg. jobs have been shipped overseas?
      * You do know of course that most of the jobs created now in the U.S.
      are low or minimum wage jobs right?

      But yes, I agree “The only real cure for poverty is to get a job.”
      Preferably a decent paying job so you don’t have to work 2 or 3 of them to make ends meet, if you can find that many.

      But maybe it’s not as simple as you say it is.

      Things are not always as simple as they seem.

      • Kernel01

        Capitalism relies heavily upon exploiting new markets with lower prices which means lower wages to produce such things. For the last 40 years we’ve depended a lot on cheaper Chinese goods, plus lost a lot of manufacturing to the Chinese who work for less; model’s been working well for all this time. If we ask for too high of a price for our goods to keep up our standard of living, no way can we sell our goods overseas at a competitive price. So maybe we should start using more robots instead of US workers to produce things to become more competitive. But then what happens to all those displaced obsolete workers? Do they become eternal serfs to Uncle Sam, who borrows the money from the Chinese to keep these types surviving? So, will capitalism eventually run out of people to exploit to keep up the business model? Or will creative destruction continually make new opportunities for the capitalistic model? Makes me wonder why Joseph Schumpeter felt that in the end socialism would be the convergence point reached.

        • guestimate

          No, sorry, not the last 40 years. GW only gave China normalized-trade-relations back in 2001, so that’s less than 20 years. We actually had jobs before that. The wound began trickling back in the mid 70’s when magazines like Popular Science & Mechanics began carrying classified ads encouraging “Manufacturers– take your business overseas!”
          What you need to understand is that trade is war, China out-smarted US, Lenin said: “Capitalists will sell us the rope we use to hang them.” Circumstances in China are brutal, there are no unions. They arrest and kill dissidents, harvest and sell their body parts. As for AI/robots, sure, bring them on, but then you need to put displaced workers on a Guaranteed Income so they can afford the goods the robots produce. Capitalists begrudge every free dollar that misses their own wallets, presuming everyone must be-do like them. it’s a culturally imposed bias.You also need to go much further down the rabbit-hole, how money is created. You barely scratch the surface of any topic. Schumpeter was right.

          • Kernel01

            Nixon and Kissinger first set foot on Mainland China in February 1972, and that’s 45 years ago. But then things for China began to improve under Deng Xiao Ping in 1978. And as for “money”, it can be created out of thing air, especially when kiting derivatives; will never be able to walk that back with a “gold standard”. World-wide derivatives market is valued at over $1Quadrillion. Now, as you were saying????

          • jackw97224

            The fiat currency and credit bubble will collapse someday and then all the debts and derivatives will be extinguished. Reminds me as Kipling wrote in The Gods of The Copybook Headings:

            As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
            There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
            That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
            And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling (wobbling) back to the Fire;

            And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world

            When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
            As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will bum,
            The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return.

          • guestimate

            Yes, Nixon/Kissinger opened the door, but trade with China took off in 2001. Yes, “money” (credit) IS created out of thin air, based upon a ruse. The Fed buys T-bills with nothing and immediately turns it into money (for the cost of paper & ink) which it OWNS for the face value, then LENDS the money out and tags Uncle Sam with 3% of GNP “management fee” compounding since 1913, which explains how it acquires EVERYTHING it wants while giving NOTHING back but debt obligations.

          • Col. Edward H. R. Green

            “What you need to understand is that trade is war…”

            Trade between and among consenting individuals is, for lack of a better word, trade.

            Or do you walk into someone’s business and initiate violence against the owner and his employees in order to get the goods and services you desire and, in Orwellian-speak, call that “trade” ?

            War is waged between two or more nation’s governments. They trade not goods and services, but destruction for destruction.

            As for robotics and AI, they will create more jobs at every level of skill and ability, just as other forms of improvements in technology, tools, and equipment did before.

            No need for at all for a ruinous, forcibly-funded “Guaranteed Income”. You are in favor of it because you count yourself among those “displaced workers” who, instead of using their intelligence and productive resourcefulness to find ways to make themselves remuneratively useful to others, think themselves “entitled” by “right” to live like parasites at other’s forced expense.

            Boy oh bloody boy, are your envy, resentfulness, malice, and dictatorial aspirations transparent !

          • guestimate

            Actually, trade is war when a country steals all your jobs, or should I say, the rich traitors in your country move all the productive assets to another. That’s what they did with the tax breaks Reaganomics gave them, they didn’t invest them here. Of course globalism has been ongoing for almost 60 years, the real coup de grace occurred in 2011 when GW gave China “normalized” trade relations. But of course Americans can’t compete against slave wages without becoming slaves themselves. The factories where people worked stood vacant for years and were finally bulldozed down leaving open fields. I live in such a town, so spare me your notions of people making themselves useful or fully reliant upon their own resources, they have none! They were expropriated! Further I am quite certain you are ignorant of banking, how it works or who the real criminals in this story are.

            There’s soft violence as well as hard violence. soft violence is when you intentionally create circumstances that people must kowtow to your desires for expediency you caused them. When enough people understand what happened then physical violence may follow. Banksters are good for the former, and investors, who follow like the tail of the dog. The world Bank President is on Youtube “predicting” the capital shift from West to East. How could he have known if he & Greenspan didn’t already know it, i.e. policies were the cause of? You may remember the TV debate between Obama/Mitler Robmoney saying he was not aware of any incentives for moving jobs to China, the man is godd am liar because that’s how his firm Bain Capital made over $200M USD, and factory workers who lost their jobs BECAUSE OF HIM testified in commercials. that’s why he lost the POTUS ship, people aren’t stupid.

            You are waging a rhetorical war for the rich, I get it. Even Warren Buffet said “there’s a (rhetorical) war being waged against the poor, but it’s we, the rich, who are waging it, and WE’RE WINNING, BUT WE SHOULDN’T BE.” (my emphasis.)

            I went to school for robotics back in the 80’s. As for robotics creating more jobs, sorry, no, you’re wrong, and asking people to trust your idiot-ology. AI does away with many human jobs, from driving to musicians, lawyers, countless occupations. AI even codes better than humans, they beat us at chess. According to facebook they create their own language for easier communication. You should watch current films like Automata, Ex Machina, Collosus– the Forbin Project, these are becoming reality.

            I’m not against human freedom from work or freedom to work, only your valuing humans as a species has to keep up with the technology, not merely defend banksters’ and private investors’ notions of elite priviledge. Your philosophy fails for that reason. You need to formulate one where benefits are shared or you’ve stopped growing or evolving, stuck in your selfish, overly priviledged, idiot-illogical dystopia and grifter mentality like the rumpTdump, that petulant, self-serving man-child. Because to overly pay yourself, you deprived someone else of their true value. And it was workers, the backs of others, who made you rich. You are not all that, a bag of chips and sliced bread. Some of us can already see clearly beyond that, you just don’t want a better world to happen, still caught up in the word MINE. The world wasn’t put here for your exclusive development, self-aggrandizement (and ultimately, spiritual growth) alone. Grow the hell up.

        • Col. Edward H. R. Green

          “Makes me wonder why Joseph Schumpeter felt that in the end socialism would be the convergence point reached.”

          Perhaps because of his own short-sightedness about human ingenuity and creativity in a free market. The man did not possess a crystal ball.

          There will be many, many jobs available for people at various levels of skill and productive ability to perform work that robotics and AI will not be able fully to replace, if at all.

          Shumpeterian creative destruction has indeed resulted in the creation of new jobs that no one ever imagined. As long as people are free to think, free to act productively, free to exchange ideas and trade with anyone anyplace on earth, free to own fully and unconditionally the means of production and all of their other wealth, people of every level of ability will be able to be employed or self-employed.

    • guestimate

      Not really, a person can make a discovery, run a process or decide to sell something for a profit, without punching a clock 9-to-5 or letting a boss exploit your value. You could also inherit or invest the trust fund daddy created for you, he knows all the right people.

  • Hank Henry

    I accept that. Problem is, I have been unable to work for 10+ yrs. Would
    I like to? Hell ya. is it possible with my current health conditions?
    While I agree with the article and you that does not deal with how charities ect transition.
    no hospitals or physicians take on charity patients. There are no
    organizations that would pay for my current $800 worth of meds each
    How will we pay for rent, utilities and food?
    I am not
    against the premise but saying that getting a job or that free markets
    will fill in the gap does not address the question of what people do in
    the mean time.
    BTW I do help run errands ect for a couple of shut
    ins. One lady is 40 yrs old in an electric wheel chair, needs nursing
    care and help with shopping, cleaning ect. who will fill in that gap.
    Close to $4000/month? You? I suspect not.
    Without charitable
    organizations in place already there are a huge number of individuals
    that would be homeless and without any care.
    Churches and community
    groups quit giving to those sorts of things nearly 50yrs ago. There is
    no current way to fill in for what govt, bad as it may be, does now.
    solution is that groups, individuals and others sit down and figure
    these things out before we wean the system down. Certainly, as a long
    term goal it is wonderful but there is no one right now actually even
    planning for such things. It would probably take as much as a
    generation, 3-5 decades, in order to make such a huge transition in
    thinking, planning and putting something in place.
    Ron Paul had some ideas but no one I have heard of has actually looked into these things in any sort of a big idea way.

    • jackw97224

      Yes, evil commie/socialist politicians got us “hooked” on the “drug” of welfare state, the loot A to satisfy immoral scheme under FDR and his criminal elite Demoncrats. The churches claimed they could no provide the charity and begged the gd anti-Christian, commie/socialist politicians to use force to loot via the income taxes and so we are all addicted to the criminal empire and its handouts. I see no way out. Amerika is doomed to fall to the bottom of the economic debacle, the abyss. It is the penalty that we pay as a nation for rejecting the moral, ethical principles so well given us by Jehovah God.

      • guestimate

        FDR’s policies were NECESSARY after bsnksters looted the country, and circumstances per pre-1929 are in place again for another economic collapse, even worse than the last, $200 Trillion in corporate derivatives, no Glass-Steagall, financial advisors don’t even need to put their client’s interests first; greater income inequality than ever in our nation’s history, and no, the rich didn’t “earn” it, they played the system like a game. Human lives in the balance for someones’ f’king game.

        • jackw97224

          Necessity is the excuse of every infringement of freedom, it is the plea of tyrants and the creed of slaves – William Pitt.

          The “NECESSITY” was created by government use of violence in the form of creating the Fed Bank in 1913, which then led to runaway credit unbacked by real substance. So, attacking the “NECESSITY” is really just treating the symptom of the “disease” and not the root cause, which is the criminality of politicians. Politics is violence as Tolstoy have noted. Politics is aggression. Better to opt for organizational government based on voluntary contracts.

          • guestimate

            Government IS violence and a paid protection racket. It took Federal marshals to round up all the natives and put them on the least hospitable spits of land that white euros at the time, had no use for, until mineral deposits were discovered, now we want those too. We NEED it!

    • guestimate

      There aren’t enough private charities to handle the sheer number of needy people when politicians and central banksters enable globalists to move jobs, factories and livelihoods overseas; that’s when government MUST step in and provide relief or it will have real riots on its hands, and justifiably so!

      • jackw97224

        So, the government creates a problem and then rides in on a white horse and provides a solution which is financed by looting the taxpayers and by imposing new “laws” that further restrict freedom or even enslave us. It is not of course a question of enough charities as those that is treating a symptom of the root cause, the initial intervention in the economy.

        • guestimate

          I would not blame the government entirely and I’m not saying welfare is a bad thing, unlike the author of this article. Taxpayers, especially businesses, historically paid a lot more in taxes, PLUS retirement plans for workers, PLUS health insurance. This amounted to a privately funded welfare system for workers AND funded public welfare too, which was proportionately small, albeit perjoratively looked down upon. Two other things happened, businessmen got greedy and capitalism outgrew its container. CEO’s are now earning thousands of percent more than workers, (the earning disparity has never been so great), and oligarchs realized that but for USA/Canada, the EU & Japan, S.Korea, the rest of the world was entirely undeveloped, unregulated and exploitable, so they moved to those places. The issue now is we Americans must compete with those other countries, some who function under truly brutal terms. Don’t even get me started on robotics, automation, AI, which I’m for btw, but will require a rethinking how we value human lives and exactly what a person has to do or not do to justify their life on planet earth. I believe welfare is necessary, a guaranteed income, if we value human life, because machines will do most jobs better than humans. And there’s one last thing, the elephant in the room no one talks about and it’s debt finance– private interests holding their hands out for free money (the other private welfare system) that disproportionately rewards a very few at cost of everyone else. The solution I believe is a Chinese model, where the government issues the currency and holds all the debt. Private investors are entirely cut out of the funding process.

          • Col. Edward H. R. Green

            “The solution I believe is a Chinese model, where the government issues the currency and holds all the debt. Private investors are entirely cut out of the funding process.”

            In other words, a centralized command economy.

            Like in Soviet Russia, China under Mao, North Korea under the Kims.

            Your “solution” is that of aspiring dictators.

            Your bloodlust is as transparent as a clear sheet of glass.

          • guestimate

            Not at all, at least no more than the (privately) centralized command economy under our current Federal Reserve corp, who is not elected, not accountable to the people, and has created the appearance (psy-op) of a $20T national “debt” based upon their funny money/bogus credit, and exclusively profits from their ruse/scam, while bludgeoning the public with fear and explaining WHY we just can’t have what we want, a world of free-energy abundance, peace & productivity where everyone has enough (thrivalism) AND while they used the people’s faith in their funny-money to export our jobs & livelihoods overseas.

            As for China, even they have moved beyond central planning, and government (vs. bank) issued currency doesn’t require it. Again I ask, what rock have you been living under? Also there is no lawful statute that allows banks to create money/credit for their exclusive profit but they do it all the time via fractional reserve banking practices. You apparently don’t know or are fraudulently concealing like the rest, how banks use loans to create even more credit 10X the original amount borrowed, and against the borrower’s own good credit via their own exemption account, not any money the bank puts up, OR how they use this ruse to acquire paper ownership and dissenfranchise the public of everything in view at no cost to themselves. Yes I’m sure this last part went over your head. And you’re the one who volunteered to be a violent monkey for the powers-that-be, “Col.” Anyway I will end this with two words: Smedley Butler.

          • Col. Edward H. R. Green

            “And you’re the one who volunteered to be a violent monkey for the powers-that-be, “Col.”

            LOL !! The title in my handle is not that of a military colonel. It is an honorific title. Look up “Col.” Edward “Ned” Howland Robinson Green.

          • guestimate

            Who cares. Honors mean a lot to you then and using other people’s names. Col. is still a military title. The rich are lost each in their own separate dreamland.

      • Col. Edward H. R. Green

        Your great god government during the FDR administration forced thousands of charities in various forms, operating for decades in cities and towns across the country, out of business

        That is not my subjective accusation; that is a historical fact, a fact that continued during the LBJ administration, and after it.

        When government “steps in”, it invariably does with firearms to loot and redistribute wealth to those to whom it doesn’t rightfully belong in the first place.

        Those who would riot–indubitably including you–if welfare were terminated–as it truly must be–would be initiating violence against peaceful people, robbing and killing them like looting, murderous barbaric savages.

        The is NO legitimate justification for initiating violence against anyone. One’s indigence does not give one a legitimate “right” to other people’s wealth to alleviate it because no person is a slave to any other human being, and when one robs from another, even if one is indigent, one is treating the person whom one robs as if he were one’s slave, so one has the “right” to rob him, to murder him.

        Those who riot, those who initiate violence against others for whatever reason deserve killing.

        I am prepared to give them what they deserve.

        If you are among the rioters in my area, you will get what you deserve, too.

        That is not a threat.

        It is a promise, from me, personally, to you, personally.

        You clearly have NO respect for people’s legitimate individual rights (self-ownership; personal liberty; peacefully-acquired property regardless of the amount; privacy; self-defense; freedom of speech, thought, and conscience; freedom of association/disassociation and contract), so if you should initiate violence in defense of your statist government and its welfare programs, and the coercive means by which they are funded by legalized theft–but theft nonetheless, you will have to learn to respect them the hard way; however, in your case, I suspect that you will only come to respect them while drawing your last breath.

  • autonomous

    “Government fails; freedom works.”
    Nuff said.

    • Wade House

      No! Not Nuff said, period!

      What do you mean freedom? What kind of freedom and for who?

      The Indians were free, look what that got them, killed and their land stolen. Animals are free, until we want their land or to kill them for food.

      I repeat: What do you mean freedom? What kind of freedom and for who?
      Do you want to do whatever you want to whoever you want?

      You want freedom? Move to the woods and be free, until the state or gov wants those woods and see how far your freedom will get you.

      This Gov. fails. This type and many other types fail.

      But there are other types of governance that have never been tried or tried on only a small scale. And they hold far more promise than representatives that only represent themselves and big business.

      • autonomous

        All government fails. Freedom is not dancing through the woods like a ‘noble’ savage, it is living among others without coercion. If you want governance, you want coercion. Maybe you only want less coercion. I ask you to consider, instead of less government, why not no government?

        • Wade House

          There have been plenty of societies without large governments. You know where they are now?

          Dead, in hiding, their lands stolen.

          How are you going to live in groups without rules? Who makes the rules? No rules? Who rules? It’s called ‘governance’.

          Have you seen all forms of governance? If you say you have, you are a liar! What do you mean “ALL”. Who do you think you are…some ALL knowing being. Do you know everything?

          “If you want governance, you want coercion.” What a load of crap. Why should we believe a liar who thinks they know it ALL?

          Let’s hear your fairy tale about how we all can live together without any form of governance or rules. Let’s hear about this la la land where everybody gets along peacefully without any rules.

          OH, there should be some rules or no rules? This is a story I really want to hear. Millions of people living together without any rules or any form of governance.

          You sound like a wacko. Prove me wrong!

          Now Piss or get off the pot – Dolly Parton

          • Wade House

            Now understand this autonomous, I have such a plan and it will be coming out soon.

            What about you? Or are you nothing but talk and hot air?

            Talk is Cheap. And if that’s all that you have…so are you!
            Nothing but talk and hot air.

            PROVE ME WRONG and I will happily withdraw everything I’ve said about you!

            Now…Like Dolly said…Piss or get off the pot.

          • jackw97224

            I would recommend you spend some time at The Zero Aggression Project by Perry Willis and Jim Babka. Also, read No Treason No. 6, The Constitution of No Authority by Lysander Spooner. Then view some of Marc Stevens’ No State Project on YouTube where he are having success when they ask the simple question: What factual evidence do you (prosecutor, judge, bureaucrat, IRS agent, politician) have that the constitution and law apply to me just because zi am physically present in some geographical location such as Wisconsin? Guess what? They don’t have it and cases are being dismissed. Why? Because the colonists had no authority to impose their beliefs/rules on anyone else they would have reimposed a tyranny the likes of which they had just dismissed, i.e. it would have been anathema to their very moral foundation upon which they threw off the shackles of the English despots. Finally, I would recommend you make a short read of Away From Freedom by Vervon Orval Watts.

          • Wade House

            Do you know of someone personally that got off by just saying that stuff? Or are you going by what you heard or read?

            Because what I hear, is that junk doesn’t work and I don’t know anyone it’s worked for. Do you? A friend or relative that’s got their case dismissed?

            Did you go into the public log and check any of these cases???


            Why should I read that stuff. What’s in it for me? Will it put more money in my pocket? Has it helped anybody in real terms? What do they have to show?

            What are the accomplishments of any of the books or any of their authors. Are the just ‘thought provoking’? What have they done…NOTHING!?!?!

            Will I just be more enlightened like you are, who believes whatever they read or hear?

            Are you telling me what I should do? Have I told anybody here ‘what THEY should do’?

            Is there some compelling reason I should listen to you or them?

            And who ARE you? Why should I listen to you? What have you done ever, that I should listen to you and ‘should’ do what you say?

            There are 2 kinds of people in this modern world, those who read the news and those who make the news.

            I don’t let others program me. I program myself with knowledge that I want.

            You program you and I’ll program me. Fair enough?

          • jackw97224

            Hey, don’t shoot the messenger. Read Lysander Spooner’s No Treason No. 6, The Constitution of No Authority and then see the success that Marc Stevens are having over at The No State Project on YouTube wherein they ask: What factual evidence do you (politician, judge, prosecutor, IRS agent, bureaucrat) have that the constitution and law apply to me just because I am physically present in some geographical location such as Mississippi?

          • Wade House

            So your proof is YouTube? Ha Ha HA!
            The ha ha ha means I’m laughing!

            I guess you don’t personally know anyone then that
            has been successful with this strategy.

            Anyone can say anything on YouTube. I’m from the school of test and verify, and you brother are falling very short.

            I’ve seen some of those video’s on Youtube also. And I’ve seen where others have tried it and it didn’t work.

            Like I said, when it happens to you or someone close to you, then you have some information. Until then, all you have are words and digital images. And that ain’t even going to buy you a cup of coffee!

            Try buying a cup of joe with words and a youtube video, that’s what you have…nothing.

            When you have REAL INFORMATION, let me know and I will share it with America and the World. Until then…

            Nuff said

          • guestimate

            It didn’t work for the natives, but you made that point already.

          • guestimate

            Dude !)

      • guestimate

        Thank you.

  • jackw97224

    Political government is
    violence and that is why it fails. Political government abandoned Christian
    principles and adopted commie/socialist, loot A to satisfy B, totally crooked,
    totally dishonest, totally immoral schemes. The political governments caused
    the welfare problems because they intervened in economies. So, any corrections
    or undoings of their interventions are in fact treating the symptoms of the
    problems they created. The root cause of all these problems is government
    intervention, politicians and bureaucrats/masters and overseers, using
    force/aggression/violence to dictate to people how they must live. So, while it
    is commendable to see the successes of Singapore, Chili, Maine, Kansas,
    the fact remains that political governments are still using their filthy, evil,
    crooked, dishonest commie/socialist, dictatorial powers against the people
    while giving the appearance that they are helping them. I’m from the government
    and I’m here to help you? B.S. spewed by commie/socialist politicians, MSM,
    “snow flakes” and the rest of the fawning, sycophantic, obsequious,
    slop-at-the-trough, suck-at-the-golden-teat, welfare-state “Statists.” How
    utterly diabolically ironic is that?

    • guestimate

      Christianity began as very egalitarian/voluntary communiism per the Essenes and was hijacked by Paul who bought his way into discipleship by appealing to wealthy gentile donors, and later became the state-sponsored Church. The Christianity you believe in has been turned on its head and nothing like what Jesus said or practiced, the free lunch, free health-care and btw, pay your taxes. What sickens me is the self-righteous, self-justified self-dealers who want to appropriate everything within their field of view as their own by using worthless credit created by the financial system that lets them foreclose on those real assets against that worthless credit, undermining the organic constitution in favor of elite priviledges, filthy, lying self-dealers like the rumpTdump & Co..

      • jackw97224

        Can you be more specific? What is the evidence for your claim that Paul bought his way into the discipleship?

        • guestimate

          A certain amount of thinking for oneself needs to transpire. Saul persecuted Christians, they did not trust him. Giving alms would establish trust. Interesting that he would collect them 800 miles away, from gentiles, to give to James in Jeruselem. Of course his own reporting and reasons is not to be trusted. Also to get donations, you need to tell the givers how good & wonderful people they are. That’s how the wealthy Romans warmed to St. Paul and the message Jesus taught got changed, from helping the poor to celebrating the rich, which they do very well.

          to Paul, his first meeting with any of the apostles did not come until
          about three years after his conversion. This meeting is also reported by
          Luke, who tells us that Barnabas had introduced Saul to “the apostles”
          (leaving unstated which ones or how many of them) because at first
          Christians in Jerusalem were afraid of Saul (Acts 9:26-29).

    • Wade House

      You can take your Christian ethics and principles and put them where the sun don’t shine!

      Ever heard of the Crusades, Holy War? What about slavery? A christian nation with slaves! And still today, modern slavery through finances and debt.
      Yea, god is fine with slavery. read your good book.

      If god thinks it’s okay for his chosen to make slaves of me and my children, he and them can kiss my arse! Screw that ancient, telepathic, homosexual, amoral, arsehole and their visions of godhood for themselves! Do I look or sound like some superstitious dimwit? Is that what you take us for.

      The legacy of religion is division, hate, war, slavery and control.

      Do you know how many wars on this planet were waged by christians and religion in general.

      The government is violent? You don’t know how easy it is to get religious folk including christians into an absolute killing frenzy for their god?!?!?
      Really? Didn’t the church control governments at one time and start wars left and right against any who weren’t their religion?

      Isn’t religion used to this very goddam day to justify killing others??
      Keep your religion and keep your god. We can do better!

      • jackw97224

        False religion is and has been a bane of mankind. Indeed, Christians in Name Only, CINOs have been responsible for horrible slaughters, but that is no reason to dismiss Jehovah God. The world is Satan’s to rule for a while longer and these horrible massacres are on his hands, not Jehovah God’s. The troika of organized and apostate religion, commerce and politics is evil and has caused the mass murders of 10s of millions but that is no reason to hate Jehovah God. It is disgusting that most, but not all, organized religious sects have approved of wars and supported wars.

        And then the people vote for politicians use violence in the form of taxation and drafts to prosecute wars. Mystery Babylon will be destroyed, well of course IMHO as a Christian. Remember, Satan rebelled because he thought he could do better and so Jehovah God gave him dominion of the Earth. The evil of which you speak is on Satan.

        • Wade House

          Religion/Religare = To Tie Back; To Hold Back; To Thwart From Forward Progress; To Bind

          Latin definition for:
          religo, religare, religavi, religatus
          * bind fast
          * moor
          * tie out of the way

          A system of CONTROL based in unchallenged, dogmatic BELIEF which holds back the progress of Consciousness.


          “And then the people vote for politicians use violence in the form of taxation and drafts to prosecute wars.”

          Politicians do whatever they want, regardless of what the people want, period.

          I remember when 80%-90% of America was against these wars. hundreds of thousands of people were out protesting and voted in a supposedly anti war congress and president. What did that get us…more wars. 🙂

          Are you still asleep or do you just have a short memory?


          You don’t know god or satan/saint. Interesting species.

          Lost Book of Enki: Memoirs and Prophecies of an Extraterrestrial God.

          One of the oldest writings known to man. Sumerian. just finished translations in the 70’s.

          The shadows you know as the bible, torah or koran all come from this book. As well as where the monarchy comes from. You know..some are chosen to rule, others to be ruled…etc. blah, blah blah. Kings, Pharaoh’s and all their bs.

          So save your god talk for the uneducated. I know who and what god and the others are…and I am not impressed.

          Those amoral, war-mongering, slave making POS’s.

          Religion is a dragon that must be slain for humanity to move forward.

          Some start at the bottom and work their way up. I’m different. Take out the boss or biggest one first, and you will walk over the rest is what I learned.

          So god…I’m coming for you!

          Take you down a couple of notches and your religions will fold and fall like a house of cards.

          Please, no one needs to take up for god. He’s a big boy, he can take care of himself. Besides, what kind of god needs puny humans to fight for them.

          So understand this, your religions and your gods are nothing to me except something to overcome. One of many things on my/our To-Do List :0 🙂

          • jackw97224

            Violence begets violence. Men have tried for a few thousand years to do as you suggest, to take out the leader. It hasn’t worked yet and I doubt you or anyone will be successful. You can cast your expletive laced pejoratives and ad hominems at will but they don’t alter the facts.

          • Wade House

            What do I care about your doubts? Should I?
            Screw your doubts.

            I don’t give a rat’s arse about your doubts.
            Doubt away, have fun.


            And don’t try to put words into my mouth, maggot.
            I didn’t suggest that anyone do anything you POS troll!


            That’s the problem with christians, they’ve been programmed to think they are powerless on this planet when just the opposite is true. And since they are powerless, they think everyone else is too.

            Not everyone needs a god crutch to get through life with.
            Now go have fun with your doubting.

            And do you really think you were created by god to be little whining cry-babies. To depend on him like a baby depends on it’s mother for milk.

            Is that what you would want for your children? Baby-like dependence on you for life???? Really???

            Grow the Hell up! Make your god proud!

          • jackw97224

            So what made you hate Jehovah God? Oh, and I don’t put words in your mouth nor would I ever do so. Oh, and Jehovah God gives us free will, so we are not powerless and in fact we make both “good” and “poor” decisions.

          • Wade House

            How’s that free will working out for you Jack?

            I don’t hate god, I hate religion(s) for the reasons stated earlier. God is just a means to an end.

            This isn’t a religious site, or I wouldn’t come here.
            But I’m going to enlighten you.

            God thinks you are Puck. He hates whining cry-babies.
            They give him/them headache(s).

            You know what they did to the last group of whining cry baby humans? They killed them all in a flood, and started over.

            How do I know? I read alot of the history they left us. They explain it all. The why and the how!

            You should know this is a vicious specie(s). They will kill every man, woman, child and their animals in a city to get what they want and they did it many times.

            Do you think a vicious species like that cares about sissified humans? A bunch of cry-babies? You are less than puck to them! Do you really think they are proud of or care about a bunch of sissies that believe in fairy tales?

            You pathetic morons put the rest of us at risk…if we were to let you…which we won’t!

            40 to 60 million Russian christians were killed between 1918 and 1948 roughly, by Communist Judaic Russians. Waiting to be delivered instead of delivering themselves. That’s not going to happen here!

            Take your sissified religion and stick it up your bung hole!

            Now they’re dealing with Tigers…And we eat wolves for breakfast…with a side order of Trolls! Because we eat them for breakfast too! 🙂

            Who do you think they like more? A sissified punk cry-baby with free will, or a human that will tell him to go to hell and do what needs to be done regardless of what he or anyone else has to say about it?

            You people are dangerous to our species…if we were to let you be…

            Now get lost Puck, and take your sissified religion with you! I don’t have time for your religious BS.

            I don’t have to defeat god BTW. All I have to do is defeat his/their main ties to this world; religion, hollywood/holywood, and a few others.

            And many American’s are already sick of you piss-ants!

            Is that clear enough for you?!

          • Col. Edward H. R. Green

            Men will have the best opportunity to have a peaceful, civilized society when the last brick from the last of their houses of worship falls upon and kills the last priest, imam, and rabbi, and when they reject every expression of statism.

  • Boysie

    [Garrett Kehr – June 19, 2017] – The major problem with [CUT _ n _ PASTE] journalist, especially American ones – is that they really believe that the KR** that they cut n paste will really solve the worlds problem – a) these wallahs are NOT economics, have absolutely no idea what they are putting on the computer screen, but (b) it sounds really good and (c) they get really well paid for it…and (d) they get many DODO’s writing in with their two pennies worth,, because of all the above – (e) I tweet your article – just as NOT to be regarded as totally obnoxious and to (f) – share information regardless of my personal opinion…

  • Goldcoaster

    In Maine, able-bodied adults are required to work, train, or volunteer at least on a part-time basis to receive any government benefits.

    The plan drew steep criticism from both the Obama administration and liberal media outlets as both claimed that the measure unfairly targeted the poor in a budget reducing measure and would create more harm to those in need……………
    Well one could expect Obama (and Holder) to “take care of his people” right?
    I mean, we owe those folks. And that is exactly the way a significant number of them feel.

    • guestimate

      I participated in similar “work relief” programs in the 80’s, did absolutely no good, only reinforces that Americans really believe in coercion and mammon is to be worshipped. You voted for that.

  • Libertarian Jerry

    I was self employed for over 40 years and during that time I purchased Disability Insurance if I was sick or injured,Health Insurance if I had to go into the hospital and Life Insurance if I died so my family would be taken care of. When it came to everyday doctors and dentists for me and my family I made deals to pay them out over a few months thus sparing any immediate high costs. I also had a “rainy day” fund for most emergencies. At all times I tried to live within my means. It wasn’t easy but I didn’t but a gun to my neighbors head and tell them that they had to pay their “fair share” so I could get a free ride. I didn’t think that I was “entitled” to anything except what I paid for out of my own pocket.
    The problem today is that self reliability and self reliance is shunned through most of society. Instead,most people think that the state is there to provide for them “cradle to grave.” For those that are desperate we have the family the church,associations,charity and maybe local or county government in certain dire Straits. But to run around and act as if one is a victim is the height of a lack of self respect.

    • Doc

      “the height of a lack of self respect”
      Well said.

      • guestimate

        As falsehoods go.

        • Col. Edward H. R. Green

          You’re projecting.

          Proceed to prove, sentence by sentence, that Don’s comments are based upon “falsehoods”.

    • guestimate

      In America we are in fact victims to globalists who moved our jobs and factories to communist Red China where they are making money hand-over-fist on the much cheaper labor there, and in fact investor blogs are STILL advocating investment there. You can invest in your countrymen or the Chinese, take your pick. Americans don’t lack self-respect, the rich got greedy, and our past Presidents signed legislation that allowed trading with the enemy. Lenin said: “Capitalists will sell us the rope we use to hang them.” Welfare isn’t an ism, it just makes sense. This arbitrary distinction between people’s needs and the state is a false perception, WE ARE the government and we pay for what we get. When businesses are allowed to do as they will without restraint, you end up with a lot less.

      • r2bzjudge

        In Cuba they have a lot less.

        Marcus Lemonis, of CNBC’s The Profit, was there last year for an episode of his show. It was a real eye opener.

        A Soviet leader said, but it was communism that failed in the Soviet Union, not capitalism. in the U.S.

        The Castros are the richest people in Cuba. after all, they are in charge of the socialist paradise they created for the people. Well over a decade ago, there was a news story which noted that per capita in relation to the people of their respective country, Castro was richer in relation Cubans than Bill Gates was in relation to Americans.

        We are not the government. The people in the government are the government. Kamala Harris didn’t get a seat in the Senate for your benefit, she got it for her benefit.

        • guestimate

          Cuba is not the only example of failed socialism, there’s Venezuela and countless South American attempts that were strangled in the cradle by Fortune 500/CIA ops who don’t want socialism to get a toe-hold in the Americas. Venezuela failed for similar reason as Cuba, virtual dictatorship by a charismatic figure who refused to relinquish power. That’s not true, organic, grass-roots socialism. And why look at failed examples when there are those that work! …like the nordic countries, for reasons they are applying it systematically, not based on some personality. Europe suffered terribly during WWII, the psychological adjustment they made was that “we’re all in this together.” Such unifying tragedy hasn’t occurred in N.America …yet.

          It’s actually funny if not so tragic how corporate interests convince people they can’t have what they want or manage their own lives based upon a consensus of agreement. Our politicians are bought off by corps and that’s why socialism doesn’t work in America. Bernie would have kicked ‘rump, 50% of eligible voters sat it out.

          And lastly, no pure ism works alone, they blend and bleed together at their edges. China has the worst aspects of both capitalism and communism right now. Marx was right, that capitalism exploits workers, and the Chinese know it very well, as they’re the ones being exploited. Socialism with capitalism works just fine, if you can get the corps to pay their taxes and stop lobbying/bribing legislators. All politics is favoritism, the only issue what group is being favored. If you don’t think the government is US or represents US, how would you make it otherwise? But as far as being rid of welfare, careful what you wish for…

          • Col. Edward H. R. Green

            “…like the nordic countries, for reasons they are applying it systematically, not based on some personality.”

            Actually, they all have been abandoning socialism, more quickly in some than in others. And to the extent to which it still exists, it continues to undermine personal and economic liberty, as it always has every place where it is imposed.

            China is not even close to being a capitalist nation. Its government remains in full control of the economy, the press, speech, the internet, but has only “allowed” markets in certain cities and zones to function with a semblance of economic freedom relative to what prevailed during Mao’s regime, not because they respect individual liberty and freedom, but in order to bring in hard currency with which to build up its military forces, since the USSR and its aid to China are no more. Those who control the government are still philosophically committed to communism, but they’re just being pragmatic–as Lenin was with his “New Economic Plan”–(when it refuted communism, he quickly scuttled it). It “Free Trade Zones” are not really free; the businesses that operate inside them are there because of their crony ties with Beijing. The businesses outside those zones exist due to cronyism, too.

            “Socialism with capitalism works just fine, if you can get the corps to pay their taxes and stop lobbying/bribing legislators.”

            Ludwig von Mises was right: When socialism is incorporated into capitalism, the latter no longer exists. Statism exists, and it steadily throttles out of existence any vestige of captalism. All that remains afterward is “capitalism” in name, but not in fact.

            Yes, socialism “works” as long as there are people to rob of their money, their businesses, and other wealth, for socialism, like other types of statism (communism and fascism) is not an economic system, for it makes economic calculation impossible. It is a system of coercive redistribution, and consumption

          • guestimate

            No they’re not abandoning socialism and not for the sick brand of Randian “individualism” you espouse. You’re grasp of philosophy AND economics is actually quite superficial and idiot-ologically driven. As for taxes, people pay for services one way or another, that’s all socialism is, paying for the services they want. But not having their greedy palms greased, in favor of government, makes capitalists blue, money, being paid, it’s THEIR entitlement, NOT government’s, don’t you see.

            Capitalists benefit from infrastructure too and are quite incapable to regulate themselves responsibly, as evidence for the mess you make of the world. So pay your damn taxes like the rest of US.

            Of course if the private bankster entitlement were ended, government would have a lot more money freed up for the people’s business, and taxes would be a lot less. The private % entitlement gifted to banks is a private tax that necessitates a public tax also, to service the national “debt,” which is a ruse and a bogus invoice, because the Fed has already been paid in spades when it bought currency at cost of paper & ink (about 4 cents per note of every denomination) and immediately realized the obscene profit on the face values of the bills. So all this free money to banks is costing all of US and requiring a tax system to pay for it. So end the bankster entitlement, reclaim government ownership of its currency and stop debt financing. Lincoln did it with his greenbacks, why the Repugnants (his own party) hired JWBooth to off him. So much lower taxes without private banksters grifting the system. And with an APT (automated payment tax) as proposed by Prof. Feige of University of WI, the tax would be painless, so you narcissistic types would have nothing further to whine about, but maybe the principle of why the rest of US don’t choose to worship you or your money god.

            There are flavors of communism and socialism never tried. Monestaries & nunneries practice it voluntarily. Socialism is just paying the government for services that corporations cannot be trusted to handle and wouldn’t provide otherwise. Nowhere is it written in stone that socialism or communism require central planning, that was just silly. Socialism merely requires people act responsibly and be held socially accountable and liable. You reptile-brain capitalists (lizard people) hate that.

            Capitalism cannot exist without government collusion and that is fascism, soft or hard. Without government you have mere winner-take-all/law-of-the-jungle. There’s nothing to restrain capitalism’s over-reaching and destructive greed BUT government, which is US, putting you curs on a leash and brought to heel; there’s no indifferent position. Atheism is still a religion. Hate being your brothers keeper, I know, so you invest in communist regimes. You don’t need to tell me about the Chinese economy, STOP INVESTING THERE, YOU GODDAM HYPOCRITE!

            And I neglected to mention last post that even A Rand’s lover, Nathaniel Brandon, abandoned her “virtue of selfishness” (a moral confusion that capitalists love to swim in), realizing that cooperation and even idealism works pretty well for everyone BUT greedy narcissistic types. Did I mention you & yours are spiritually sick, tarded excuses of humanity? It’s really true.

        • Col. Edward H. R. Green

          “Kamala Harris didn’t get a seat in the Senate for your benefit, she got it for her benefit.”

          And for her crony constituents’ benefit.

          She, like every other elected “representative” is indifferent to, if not expressly contemptuous (at least not near a microphone) of the rest of her constituents.

    • Col. Edward H. R. Green

      “For those that are desperate we have the family the church,associations,charity and maybe local or county government in certain dire Straits.”

      “…and maybe local or county government in certain dire Straits.”

      I agree with your comments; however, you reveal how deeply indoctrinated you apparently are in the statist propaganda to which you’ve been exposed ever since childhood by thinking it acceptable for local or county government to provide welfare assistance “in certain dire straits”, forgetting that government at ALL levels is forcibly funded via coercive taxation.

      When people in dire straits make people aware of their plight, generous, compassionate people charitably assist them, often providing much more assistance than needed to eliminate their plight.

      Government has NO rightful business providing welfare, or loans, grants, subsidies, or bailouts to ANYone, or to any group, or business, large or small. When government is funded by theft–legalized theft, but theft nonetheless–the beneficiaries of the theft are recipients of stolen property.

  • Doc

    Another DB piece advocating the territorial monopolistic governments’ place is to do this or that in this and that territory. That’s not freedom.

    When are you going to advocate breaking up the monopolies and let people have the freedom to select the governance model they prefer?

    • Wade House

      Boom Boom Boom! Hit’em Doc!

      That’s what I’m talking about!


      • Doc

        Thanks mate.

        I think the new DB editors have made the publication look more like a phony libertarian think tank publication rather than something that challanges the elites and dissects memes.

        That is a great loss.

        • Wade House

          “the freedom to select the governance model they prefer”

          That Hits the nail so squarely and exactly on it’s head!!!

          I’m so glad that others like you still come here after…”The Change”

          The freedom to select the governance model is what I’m all about.

          But that model must be so overwhelmingly good, that it instantly;
          1) “makes the government look stupid if it’s not adopted!”
          2) It has to be strong enough to make the Media look like fools when they go against it.
          3) It must make the military disregard any notion to try and stop it. They must actually like the plan themselves.
          4) It must be strong enough to stand against the multitude of “False Plans” that will arise to dilute the population and leave only one of the Big 2 standing.

          I strongly believe that the New Trillennium Platform will do just that. It already knows what it is up against. It already knows what it has to do!

          Within 2 weeks to a month, that platform will be out.

          And then we shall see “for whom the bell tolls!” 🙂

          • Doc

            What is New Trillennium Platform? Links?

          • Wade House

            Hi Doc,

            Within 2 weeks to a month, that platform will be out.

            About to enter the final stages of composition. Just putting everything together. Take about a week at least.

            Working on 2 other very important issues to be resolved or working toward resolution within 1 week.

            But I had to take a short break and talk about welfare and bankruptcy, which figure prominently in the New Trillennium Platform, which the elites would call a ‘game changer.’

            Copies will be sent to all members of congress and the media at the same time it’s released to the public.

            If they deny it, the question will be why? If they put it down, the question will be why? If they ignore it, the question will be why?

            The goal is to change the conversation.

            People are starving for good news. And people aren’t stupid. They know what can help them and what won’t when given a choice.

            And freedom of choice, is really what it’s all about!

            We have to create a platform that is stronger than the distraction! A very tall order, considering that 99.9% of the media is against us.

            But…No Adversity, No Growth.

            If it was easy, it would of been done by now! 🙂

    • guestimate

      “I should be free to take what I want from whomever I can wrest it from.” That’s how capitalism looks at native populations. “From a cost-perspective, stealing is the cheapest way to go.” (anonymous MBA)

      • Doc

        Excuse me but what was the point you wanted to make?

        • guestimate

          “Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they
          will demand the more” (verse 48, ESV)

          • Doc

            Why add that as a reply to me? I have never argued against people having a government if they like to. I have argued that everyone should have the one they prefer, not a single one imposed as a monopoly in a specific territory.

        • Col. Edward H. R. Green

          He’s equating capitalism with an expression of statism, i.e. mercantilism.

  • Wade House

    The Government Fails at Welfare because that’s
    what they want.

    The Government always gets what it wants or it wouldn’t pay.

    It’s really that simple. Don’t believe the hype!

    The way out of this mess is really quite simple, so they keep the distractions and the divisions coming at a furious pace.

    Welfare and Healthcare are just 2 of the things used to purposely divide US. But Knowing is half the battle!

    Within 2 weeks all these conversations will be mute, and a new conversation started.

    Do we want; No personal Taxes, severely reduced business taxes, Free healthcare for all based on the 3 top healthcare systems in the world, reduced deficits and a way to pay for it all that reduces inflation and hyper inflation…OR… do we want to keep things as they are?

    That’s where we will be within 2 weeks to a month. We will have a clear choice!
    That’s when the real battle will begin! That’s when sparks will start to fly.

    And unlike most of the people here…”they” know exactly what’s coming. And they are in complete panic mode. I almost can’t believe the crap they are using as distractions. WW3, healthcare, attacks, welfare, blah, blah, blah.

    Yea…much better times are ahead. And not that far ahead either!

    To you, I’m a Dreamer…to “them”, I’m a Nightmare!

    People aren’t as stupid as they would think. We will easily be able to convince the masses that there is a far superior way of doing things. EASILY!!!

    They don’t have a leg to stand on…all they have are words!

    • guestimate

      Knowing the definition, only an idiot is against welfare. Unfortunately this country has lots of them.

      • Col. Edward H. R. Green

        And it is aspiring tyrants and other psychopaths like yourself who “think” that they have a “right” to other people’s time, labor, money and other wealth; therefore, they advocate and try to defend the morally, rationally, and historically indefensible in the form of a forcibly-funded welfare state.

        Regarding people as “idiots” for being against government welfare programs is analogous to calling people “idiots” for being against common civilian thieves robbing them.

        It is NOT justice that you seek when you defend welfare schemes and coercive taxation; it is demanding that everyone be forced, ultimately at gunpoint, to pander to your envy and resentment towards others who have worked peacefully, productively in voluntary trade with others and consequently have more wealth than you have.

        ALL government welfare programs must be completely, unconditionally, and permanently terminated along with the coercive personal and business taxes that fund them and their originator.

        Charity alone is the only form of assistance that may exist because it is voluntarily given in accord with the giver’s private property rights and freedom of association, and the giver’s personal standards of giving.

        • guestimate

          People in EU look at welfare differently, for the extreme suffering they experienced in WWII they acquired a common view of “We’re all in this together.” Funny you have no problem or are blithe to citizens being robbed by banksters at a much more phenomenal rate. Do you actually know how or what the national Debt is or how it was created, or how it’s used as a perceptual bludgeon to affect public policy? Problem with what you said is, the rich have much lower standards of giving, and they now hold most of the money, so what you propose doesn’t work, not to mention the perversity of private interests to want to control the people to whom their donations are targetted; where’s my n!gger! Money doesn’t make you right, though I do understand how badly you want people to believe that it does.

          • Col. Edward H. R. Green

            Europeans have lived under monarchies for centuries. They are psychologically and socially conditioned from birth to regard themselves as subjects, NOT as sovereign individuals the way most (I can only hope) Americans to this day–including myself– rightly regard themselves. Consequently, although they don’t “feel” that their government is robbing them, in reality, their government IS robbing them. They’ve been institutionalized to it all of their lives, the way that a prisoner becomes institutionalized to being in a prison.

            ” Funny you have no problem or are blithe to citizens being robbed by banksters at a much more phenomenal rate. ”

            Please point out in any of my comments where I have defended a government-controlled banking and financial system and its crony “banksters”. I am unconditionally opposed the Federal Reserve system and government’s control over currency, interest rates, and credit.

            “Problem with what you said is, the rich have much lower standards of giving…”

            A subjective assertion with no probative basis except your “feelings” that its lower than what you demand that it be.


            Yelling is rude, and it does not make you right.

            Coerced (forced) charity is a contradiction in terms.

            “not to mention the perversity of private interests to want to control the people to whom their donations are targetted…”

            Giving voluntary assistance to anyone according to one’s own personal (private) standards of giving does not take away the freedom of the beneficiary to decline the assistance.

            It would be just as much an act of injustice for one to force someone to accept one’s assistance as it would be to force anyone to assist another person, for this would amount to treating the giver and receiver as if they were slaves.

            “Money doesn’t make you right, though I do understand how badly you want people to believe that it does.”

            Where exactly in any of my comments have I ever expressly asserted this, or even implied it ?

            Money is morally neutral. It’s neither “good” or “bad”, nor does it make anyone having it “right” or “wrong”.

            Since you bring up John Galt, you’re apparently familiar with “Atlas Shrugged”. Read–carefully–Francisco D’Anconia’s “money speech” in the novel.

            “You are an artifact and a dinosaur at point of extinction….you pathetic has-been.”

            How so ? What is your evidence ? And these ad hominem attacks do not qualify as evidence.

            “Your philosophy is a lie.”

            Committing the Falllacy of the Bare Assertion does not prove that it is “a lie”.

            What facts prove it to be a lie?

            Please identify my philosophy by name, and refute–by reference to facts, not your emotions–its metaphysics, epistemology, ethics (morality), politics, and aesthetics.

          • guestimate

            Oh please. Europeans have been revolting as long as we have, the British against Rome, the French against aristocrats. Your history is based upon feelings & biases, not facts.

            And they pay taxes voluntarily the way Jesus told them to, because they know where and to what they’re applied. You crooked capitalists are the problem, grumbling under the big top how much better the trapeze artists would perform without a net.

            It’s not just the Fed, it’s private banking; THEY are the criminals, the Fed is a PRIVATE BANK! Lending inflated currency and foreclosing on real assets bought with their worthless script, dissenfranching owners. THAT IS the scam, the license-to-steal. We need to outlaw private banking, better yet, nationalize them, make them mere kiosks distributing currency issued by the government. China has a national bank and no debt, at least none they couldn’t write off tomorrow, because they OWN it! Under a nationalized bank system, private lenders could not compete against government low rates, they could be re-educated into useful, less parasitic occupations.

            The rich don’t give proportionately, they are stingy, missanthropic bastards. “By their works ye will know them.” From he who has been given much, much is expected.” GIVEN! They didn’t “earn” it, they cheated workers for a lion’s share, period. It wasn’t always that way, obscene dissproportion of CEO pay. Oligarchs used to pay retirement plans, health-care AND much higher taxes. They valued their countrymen and knew they were mortal, had to give an accounting to their Maker someday. Then entered this new generation of selfish, tarded darwinist rich-brat. You echo their values, “Me! Mine!” Don’t seem to understand we live in a web, a continuum and you are not separate or “better” unless you’re really good at foot-washing.

            No one is forcing anyone to receive assistance but boy do the wealthy fall over themselves to get any government free money, it’s their “entitlement” after all, T-bills a courtesy to participate in public debt creation, but Uncle Sam should stop being so damn courteous.

            You’re rude & obnoxious by thinking you know something I don’t just because I don’t AGREE with you.

            Government IS force you idiot. We took the land from the natives by force. Sure taxes are force, but at least you get to vote for the persons who decide to whom they’re allocated. All politics is favoritism, the only question is what group is being favored. Capitalists are good at privately robbing others, they hate government getting involved uness they’re being aided and abetted. Business LOVES fascism! HATES regulations!

            I’ve lived through all this once already, you have nothing to offer, no new insights. You are a broken record, a loop of tape, that’s your rhetorical war, it’s a lie of course, but I get it.

            A.Rand was an atheist who died on SSDI & public housing, So much for her failed philosophy of selfishness, you read her, I’m way past her stupid individualistic fiction. The real John Galt was Tesla, he died single in an apartment. The other guy who practiced free health-care and the free lunch, they nailed him to a tree. “If you would be perfect, go, give what you have to the poor and come follow me.” Any sense of real idealism escapes you unless you’re killing someone “for freedom.” You ARE the sickness, “Colonel.”

  • georgesilver

    Welfare is a way of making sure people remain poor and are subservient to the will of the government.
    Once you have a vast population on welfare you have their votes.

    • guestimate

      Welfare is a way of keeping people alive after the rich have stolen all the marbles and moved them overseas.

      • georgesilver

        By ‘rich’ you mean the people in the government and their buddies the central banks, multinationals and pharmaceutical industry.

        • guestimate

          Well them certainly but also the hundreds if not thousands of US companies that moved to China for either the new markets or just cheap labor. Investing in slavery or your own countrymen is a choice. Clearly capitalism has failed US. I like Alfred Lawson’s “Direct Credits for Everybody”

          • Col. Edward H. R. Green

            “Clearly capitalism has failed US.”

            Unfortunaetly, laissez-faire capitalism, that is, capitalism properly understood, does not exist in the US.

            Due to your ignorance and defective “education” about it, you are confusing it with statism, which takes three forms (often intertwined): socialism, communism, and fascism, and all of its destructive effects, with cronyism as a necessary function of each, arising from statism’s denial of legitimate individual rights, especially private property rights, which private property logically includes all of the means of production.

          • guestimate

            Capitalism cannot exist anywhere because it self-destructs/cannibalizes itself and its participants, Marx was 100% correct about that. I would suggest you watch Richard Wolff’s Youtube videos. America had much more socialism in the past, and more prosperity for it.

            There’s nothing wrong about my education and I’m not confusing anything. On the other hand you might try learning from direct observation of the real world rather than living from some idealized notion of some textbook writer that doesn’t (and never did) work in the real world.

            Capitalism favors slavery, from the dutch bankers importing slaves through New Amsterdam harbor, to the movement of US capital assets to communist Red China by traitorous, globalist billionaires, who in fact LOVE communism’s captive labor pool. but there assets are locked up now, and it will be funny when the Chinese decide to stop paying them.

            I might add that there are nuances and variations to socialism that have never been tried. Again you revert to textbook versions but not modern reality or possibilities for people free to use their imaginations, common sense, assemble and do things any damn way they please. Capitalists hate that of course, when it restricts their “right” to dominate, exploit.

            Government doesn’t fail at welfare, it does quite well at it, even to corporations who don’t deserve it, sorry to say. If you really want to see epic welfare failure, entrust it to corporations who know nothing but self-dealing. That’s the social experiment of this current admin.

      • r2bzjudge

        Interesting false propaganda. It was Lyndon Johnson that began the Great Society welfare programs. The rich were not stealing marbles and moving them overseas in the 1960’s.

        For one China was in the vacuum of communism since 1949. With over a billion people living outside the world market, that was a huge vacuum to fill. The Chinese middle class is now bigger than the population of the U.S.

        Once to the top of a mountain, the only course is down. The U.S. has been to the top of the mountain, as it was after WW2. The course is now reversing and there is no stopping it, as cycles always prevail.

  • guestimate

    It’s called public assistance for a reason, because WE pay for it via our taxes. There’s nothing wrong with the current welfare system. Repugnants are stealing public funds every way they can, curs at the trough. They want their brand of corruptionto become systemic again, something you can’t see or think past. The ‘rump’s son was recently called out for sponsoring a charity event that actually stole funds from children with cancer.

    Another unspoken but false assumption is that capitalism funds are earned when in fact investors profit from the work of others, free money in fact, to the rich. So if workers can still afford a rainy-day fund or retirement well god-bless them because the rich have done absolutely nothing to make it easier for the common man. Was a time even in recent memory when businesses funded retirement plans, profit-sharing and paid dearly in taxes. America was more prosperous as a whole for it. These are not new ideas at all, they go back decades, even centuries. You are being played for stupid by the rich waging their rhetorical war, which according to Warren buffet, “…are winning, but we shouldn’t be.” You don’t need to be fooled again, unless you want to be.

    • r2bzjudge

      Capital comes from savings, which is from money obtained from work.

      Steve Jobs began in his garage and it wasn’t rich people that invested in his company. Lots of businesses start with savings earned by friends and family or ones own earned savings.

      “Was a time even in recent memory when businesses funded retirement
      plans, profit-sharing and paid dearly in taxes. America was more
      prosperous as a whole for it.”

      Was a time when the U.S. was producer to the world, after other countries industrial capacity was destroyed in WW2. That was what produced American prosperity. That time no longer exists.

      We are for one, in another long term cycle depression. Retirement funds, banks, businesses, governments- Illinois for one, fail. It is happening all over the world, just as it happened all over the world in 1930.

      Deflation follows inflation, to complete a cycle.

      • guestimate

        Capital comes from people’s heads, in form of ideas, translated into product & services that other people want. Money is just the medium of exchange that people agree upon for convenience, which unfortunately (unless it’s issued by government) gets co-opted and inflated by private money (credit) creators. China has debt but it could write it all off tomorrow because it’s owned by government, who issues the currency.

        Much of the best capital of last century up to today has been ignored and suppressed by fossil fuel companies who bought up or snuffed out inventors. You can still find many of the patents in archives. We could be living in the Star Trek Next Generation. Misery is a business model.

        • Col. Edward H. R. Green

          “Capital comes from people’s heads, in form of ideas, translated into product & services that other people want.”

          You’re missing a step or two here. Ideas and other acts of consciousness are not metaphysically active. One cannot conceive of goods and services and–Poof !–the are physically translated into them.

          Let’s see if you an figure out where you erred.

          “Money is just the medium of exchange that people agree upon for convenience, which unfortunately (unless it’s issued by government) gets co-opted and inflated by private money (credit) creators.”

          The US government co-opted currency when it created the Federal Reserve in 1913, and forced everyone to treat it as if it were money via legal tender laws. When Nixon took the US dollar off the gold standard, the politicization of the dollar was complete, and inflation has skyrocketed since.

          I suggest you read Murray Rothbard’s “What has Government Done to Our Money ?, and G. Edward Griffin’s “The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve”. Those two works fully refute claims that people are best served when government controls (co-opts) their money, interest rates, and credit.

          Private banks that inflated their bank’s currency beyond their gold or silver holdings that gave that currency its redeemability and secured its purchasing power thereby committed fraud and went out of business, for they were not government, i.e. they could not compel others to continue to honor their currency. Those private bankers who had political pull in government committed this fraud with impunity.

    • Col. Edward H. R. Green

      “It’s called public assistance for a reason, because WE pay for it via our taxes. There’s nothing wrong with the current welfare system.”

      There is everything wrong with it because it is funded by force, by legalized theft that does not become something other than theft, or made a legitimate means to any end, merely by being legalized.

      Fundamentally, you deny a person’s legitimate right to ALL of the money and other wealth that he has peacefully earned and rightfully inherited. You mistakenly “think” that people in difficult straits thereby have a “right” to “some” of other people’s lives, time, labor, and wealth.

      Like your fellow statists in the fascist and communist camp, by denying unconditional private property rights, and thereby deny all other legitimate individual rights (self-ownership; privacy; self-defense; freedom of thought, speech, and conscience; freedom of trade, association/disassociation, and contract)–for without private property rights, there is no way to physically implement one’s other legitimate rights–you and your fellow socialists advocate dictatorship and slavery.

      “Another unspoken but false assumption is that capitalism funds are earned when in fact investors profit from the work of others, free money in fact, to the rich.”

      A Marxist assertion based upon the fully refuted Iron Law of Wages and the labor theory of value.

      “Was a time even in recent memory when businesses funded retirement plans, profit-sharing and paid dearly in taxes.”

      Fortunately, they managed NOT to pay as “dearly” as you and your envious, resentful ilk would have preferred. They rightly defended themselves and their businesses and wealth from that legalized plunder by means of domestic and international asset protection strategies, which enabled them to secure their wealth, making it available for capital investments, price their goods and services competitively, and offer retirement plans, profit-sharing, and other incentives to their employees.

      Government-protected domestic unions, adverse changes in US and international tax laws–many of which were and still are promoted by the OECD and other statist organizations–a burgeoning, coercively-funded (tax-funded) welfare state, increasing costly controls, including price and wage controls (e.g. minimum wage mandates), and other costly, politically motivated interferences (i.e.having nothing to do with ensuring “safety”, or even less with “security”, “fairness” or “justice”), imposed on businesses have caused reductions in hours and the offering of incentives.

      These and many other interferences, along with increased globalization of markets, and their liberalization in several countries (in varying degrees) since the 1970s, and the challenges and opportunities that the latter offered them, motivated them to leave and seek more business and financial freedom outside the US, wherever and however such could still be found, for if they are able, people will always take themselves and their ideas, skills, and wealth wherever else they are more respected.

      “You are being played for stupid by the rich waging their rhetorical war, which according to Warren buffet, “…are winning, but we shouldn’t be.”

      It is a mistake to consider Buffet an example of a laissez-faire capitalist. He is a crony business person–a good value-based investor, but philosophically, a statist–who has “won” by his close ties with government officials. I doubt that he meant that he and his cronies are winning, but shouldn’t be; he likely meant that those who became very wealthy without resorting to cronyism shouldn’t be winning.

      In either case, his statement implies a plea to have other human beings, allegedly “superior” beings by virtue of being government employees, rob him and others by a legalized act of theft, but theft nonetheless, via coercive taxation.

  • r2bzjudge

    “The leviathan created by the modern welfare state is one of the gravest threats facing the American republican system.”

    This is another one of those cycles. It is following the path of the Roman days of bread and circuses. The Roman Empire failed, as all empires have failed down through history. The American Empire will fail, too.

    The Kondratieff cycle, the four turnings, the four quadrants of a cycle. Rise and fall, it is what cycles do.

  • Col. Edward H. R. Green

    “Singapore’s philosophy on welfare follows three basic principles: each generation should pay its own way, each family should pay its own way, and each individual should pay his or her own way. These aren’t just guidelines. The legislators codified the importance of family reliance by enabling seniors to file litigation against their children if they refuse to support them.”

    Observe the hypocrisy of Singapore’s government.

    Each individual is to pay his own way in life, which logically includes saving for his own elderly years, which is a morally correct and sound expectation (though not one that government has any business enforcing), based on one’s right to self-ownership and consequent personal responsibility.

    But those in Singapore’s government hypocritically backtrack by enabling elderly folk to sue their children if the latter refuse to support them !

    “In addition to heavy social pressures, the state also requires compulsory savings for retirement, housing, and other items deemed social necessities. By requiring employers and employees to designate money for individual “rainy day funds” the government ensures that citizens have money when in need while simultaneously avoiding onerous taxes and bureaucracy that accompany the American and European models.”

    Here, those in Singapore’s government are FORCING people, ultimately at gunpoint, to save, as the US government does via coercive “contributions” to the Ponzi-scheme called Social Security (as other governments do), thereby treating citizens as if they were subject-slaves of its operators, and implying clearly that it is THEY in government, not the citizens, who control, therefore own, the latter’s income.

    Whatever “alternative” to welfare programs that any government at any level implements inevitably fails if it involves coercive funding and/or participation.

    The only proper solution is to completely, permanently, and unconditionally abolish all government welfare programs, and their inevitably poor substitutes or “reforms”, and abolish all of the coercive personal and business taxes that fund them.

    The complete absence of government’s illusory “safety nets” and coercive taxation would inform everyone that they alone, because they are self-owning and free, are personally responsible for their own maintenance throughout their entire lives and managing their own incomes to that end. If they end up destitute at any stage of their lives, they either obtain help from others as an act of charity, or they go without. With coercive taxation absent, and everyone having their incomes fully available to them to manage as they please, that security in their property would, in all likelihood, motivate them to be charitable, more so than under the current situation of having governments rob them by legalized acts of theft, but theft nonetheless–to fund “safety net” or “welfare-to-work” or any other welfare program.

    • guestimate

      You gotta have industry and an earned income sufficiently large to save. America used to have that, not any more. Either you’re too young to remember or old, well established, and heartless for the realities your countrymen currently face. It’s a financial racket and you have a learning disability that offers the perfect opportunity for inserting an idiot-ology over any kind of truth, plug-&-play play-babies; The rich aren’t paying taxes or giving to charities, and they have over 50% of the cash. The rest of US should suffer your already failed social experiment, Reagan’s trickle-down disaster. The rich used to pay a lot more taxes, we had more prosperity then. Cutting their taxes only caused them to invest in communist Red China, investor blogs continue making that recommendation to this day. You want to blame democrats so you can loot the public and hollow out the country some more. Golf anyone? 😛

      • Chris Graviss

        “The rich aren’t paying taxes or giving to charities, and they have over 50% of the cash. The rest of US should suffer your already failed social experiment, Reagan’s trickle-down disaster. The rich used to pay a lot more taxes, we had more prosperity then.”

        Parroting DNC talking points that aren’t true? Trickle Down is a strawman. The wealthy (excluding wealthy Democrats like the Obamas and Clintons, and those who have inherited their wealth) give large amounts of money to charities. The wealthy are paying more in taxes than they used to. The top 0.01 percent paid 6.5 percent of all federal taxes in 2005, up from 2.7 percent in 1979. More broadly, the top 1 percent paid 27.6 percent of federal taxes in 2005, up from 15.4 percent in 1979. (You sometimes hear larger numbers, but they tend to apply only to income taxes, rather than to all federal taxes.)

        • snowiegeorgie

          To be arithmetically fair — IN ALL RESPECTS — I believe that if one says the top ONE PERCENT pay xx% of all income taxes, three additional important data points s/b stated:

          (1) The top ONE PERCENT , who EARN YY PERCENT OF ALL INCOME, pay XX percent of all income taxes. Why not state that — or rather, WHY HIDE THAT DATA ?

          (2) The Social Security tax is intrinsically an “income tax” since what one pays is 100% a function of wage income. So I gently suggest it is fair to include the FICA burden, for all income deciles, when showing percent of income earned and also percent of income tax paid.

          3) Now that we have a fairer way to display the figures, add in this final info-point to really elucidate the discussion — for each decile ( or even single percent ) of earners, what is the ratio of “income taxes” paid to total earnings, both wage and capital gains.

          Those who like to say how much the rich pay ( of total taxes collected — and THEY DO PAY A LOT ! ) will be dismayed at what my suggested “discussion reforms” reveal.


          • Chris Graviss

            You are correct. There are many ways to look at the data in a very complicated tax system. We could also look at govt subsidies to the poor and lower middle class including, for instance, the cost of public education, as negative taxes, and come up w different numbers. I was throwing out some numbers to refute what I considered an inaccurate progressive talking point. By straight percentages the middle class clearly pays the highest percentage of their earnings.

  • real427 man

    We have a moron society full of lazy stupid people. I was raised poor, no welfare, I made it OK, who needs poor people, they do nothing.